Our Fractured Crown: An Eastern Roman Timeline

[Averious]

@Averious ! RIP Edward III Long live Edward IV, the Black King!

And LOVE how John II will secure the whole of ireland in the future! Show them that he's NOTHING like lackland and more like John II of Eastern Rome!

And amazing of a Plantagenet Britanny! Edward the younger will make an amazing duke there.

Of course i'm also happy that The trastamaras secured castile. Although also happy for John of gaunt for getting the money he desperately needed to continue defending what remains of aquatine.

Great that ALbert will marry Mary, just hoping that Frederick in the future can get those kingdoms. And if not that the children of them survive and Frederick's line get the title of emperor

Long live King Edward IV, the Black King!

Glad you liked it!

Something to note is that with Rudolf surviving, and Leopold dying early TTL, Frederick as we know him OTL is butterflied away--although Archsleepyhead will emerge as an 'equivalent' in the line of Rudolf through his TTL son Albert.

Great chapter @Averious, RIP Edward III and long live Edward IV The Black Prince!!! Interesting seeing how the Plantagenets handle the revolt by the Lollards. John of Bordeaux I feel will firmly put his foot down on the due to the insults towards his mother. I believe the future John II will become well liked by the Irish, letting up in certain areas and using them in key battles in the future.

Will Edward IV suspending Parliament have effects throughout the future? Seems to me we'll be getting a trend of the English monarchy working towards ending Magna Carta in all but name, it's around in paper but effectively useless.

Interesting goings-on with the Angevin succession in Hungary-Poland-Croatia and it's breakup. Mary being married to John the Younger won't be a pleasant relationship I think, he'll be focused on battling the Turks. Good that Constantine (hopefully TTL's Constantine XI?) is married to Princess Sophia, they need a great relationship. I'm imagining Sophia speaking with your standard upper class modern haughty English accent despite never visiting England 🤣🤣🤣.

Nice we'll be getting a Plantagenet held Brittany with Edward of Angouleme marrying Marie of Brittany, I think he'll leave his mark by good governance (great experience as Regent of England) and massive public/cultural works.

Keep up the amazing work 👍 👍 👍 👍

Something to make clear is that Parliament before the modern era was very much adhoc--it was called at the behest of the King, and could be dismissed at any time. The Tudors were famous OTL for calling it rarely to rubberstamp before then dissolving it until next time.

Edward IV's actions are the start of a trend though, and the goal of the Monarchy in England, and thus Britain, is to keep it from stripping royal power from it, which'll eventually see the system evolve into a much more anocratic alternative to the rather disfunctional, and depressing (at least in my opinion) modern Parliamentary Democracy of the modern UK.

Otherwise, you're pretty spot on otherwise. Glad you liked it!

Plus ensuring the indipendence of the duchy, recovering an angevin terrioty, and be a FIRM ally to england. And maybe begin the path to britanny expanding at the expense of france and becoming a kingdom?

Brittany's pathway to becoming a Kingdom is already quite obvious.

On that note, for all we know, we could get a set up where England/Britain and France reverse political trajectories long-term.

Oh definitely--France'll be going a very interesting direction I don't think I've seen handled at all in a TL.

It would be hilarious if John of Gaunt manages to create a breakaway kingdom in Southern France, he can't claim Castile so he'll create an entirely new realm for himself. This Occitan speaking realm becomes a rival to the mainline Plantagenets and it's nearby neighbors of France/Castile/Navarre/Aragon/etc. 🤣🤣🤣.

So cursed!

But it's so right 🤣🤣🤣🤣

This is definitely cursed 🤣

Stealing a bit from The Dead Live: A Hundred Years War Timeline: John of Bordeaux will be known as The White Prince for his skill in battle and chivalrous personality, also a way to different himself from his father The Black Prince.

Probably a typo @Averious, it should be Jean IV I believe 👍👍👍

It is definitely a nice title, but of himself and his brother, John is far more cunning than he is chivalrous, despite his reputation. If you want a proper Knightly figure, Edward the Younger is your man.

Fixed that! Thanks!

 

[Dragonboy]

Glad you liked it!

Something to note is that with Rudolf surviving, and Leopold dying early TTL, Frederick as we know him OTL is butterflied away--although Archsleepyhead will emerge as an 'equivalent' in the line of Rudolf through his TTL son Albert.

Always! And yay! Albert line survives! Meaning the habsburgs get to have Hungary, croatia and bohemia from the get go! More imperial power!

Brittany's pathway to becoming a Kingdom is already quite obvious.

Awesome!

This is definitely cursed 🤣

Thanks!

 

[A Random Man]

which'll eventually see the system evolve into a much more anocratic alternative to the rather disfunctional, and depressing (at least in my opinion) modern Parliamentary Democracy of the modern UK.

No more political gridlock in this ATL Britain, the Monarchy has clear authority and is no figurehead.

 

[A Random Man]

Oh definitely--France'll be going a very interesting direction I don't think I've seen handled at all in a TL.

France either becomes a theocratic state like Iran or state similar to the Teutonic Order.

 

[Dragonboy]

No more political gridlock in this ATL Britain, the Monarchy has clear authority and is no figurehead.

LET'S GO!

 

[A Random Man]

Yet John, tall and well-built already now at the age of 18, would shove Wat aside, draw his sword, and take his head clean off;

Manuel ran a hand through his curly locks and adjusted his seat--his height was a problem, but a new chair for him was coming soon from a local craftsman

How tall are characters like Prince John and Imperial Prince Manuel? I've seen you mention it several times with their height and it just made me curious. At most they'd be a few inches above six foot, don't think they'd be reaching NBA levels of height in the 14th Century 🤣🤣🤣

 

[A Random Man]

I hope Edward of Angouleme, future Edward of Brittany, doesn't die like the previous Plantagenet Prince Geoffrey of Brittany in a jousting accident.

 

[Piebald Brigade]

This timeline continues to keep both the west and east interesting. I like the new Prince of Wales and his brother (who I agree could be a good Edward the White as King of Brittany). Brother kings of Great and Little Britain. I hope to see them both thrive and give us some interesting characters for the next generation.

The Palaiologoi seem to have adhered so far to the OTL succession, so that pairing of Ioannes and Maria of Anjou does feel a little doomed, but doubtless in a fresh and engaging way just as Andronikos and other characters have been. Whether or not it’s Constantine and Sophia who continue the royal dynasty, I’m excited to meet their family too and the next generation as we leave the era the OTL dynasty and empire were around.

 

[Averious]

How tall are characters like Prince John and Imperial Prince Manuel? I've seen you mention it several times with their height and it just made me curious. At most they'd be a few inches above six foot, don't think they'd be reaching NBA levels of height in the 14th Century 🤣🤣🤣

Prince John is roughly 6’2 already—and built like a bull. Imperial Prince Manuel is 6’4—he’s a notable anomaly, and likely inherited it through the large amount of intermixing the Palaiologi have done. His own father, Emperor John V, is around 6ft, and Andronikos was 6’1, so John V is slightly shorter than his father was.

Considering how much intermarriage there’s been very soon everyone will have Andronikos III as a common ancestor 🤣

Although, one thing that definitely intrigues me is just how ethnically mixed the Palaiologi are now. There’s a massive portion of Bulgarian and Latin in there, and very little Romaioi at this point.

I hope Edward of Angouleme, future Edward of Brittany, doesn't die like the previous Plantagenet Prince Geoffrey of Brittany in a jousting accident.

Well, not much of a spoiler to say that Edward of Angouleme is going to survive and found the Plantagenet Cadet House of Brittany.

Come the end of the 100 Years War there’ll be three different branches of the dynasty—I won’t spoil how though.

This timeline continues to keep both the west and east interesting. I like the new Prince of Wales and his brother (who I agree could be a good Edward the White as King of Brittany). Brother kings of Great and Little Britain. I hope to see them both thrive and give us some interesting characters for the next generation.

The Palaiologoi seem to have adhered so far to the OTL succession, so that pairing of Ioannes and Maria of Anjou does feel a little doomed, but doubtless in a fresh and engaging way just as Andronikos and other characters have been. Whether or not it’s Constantine and Sophia who continue the royal dynasty, I’m excited to meet their family too and the next generation as we leave the era the OTL dynasty and empire were around.

Glad you’ve enjoyed it!

John and Edward will certainly go on to do great things, and leave a lasting legacy of bloodline and more.

I have largely kept to OTL succession yes—and you’re right, once we’re past Constantine it does get into purely TTL territory—which’ll be rather interesting for me.

 

[A Random Man]

Imperial Prince Manuel is 6’4—he’s a notable anomaly, and likely inherited it through the large amount of intermixing the Palaiologi have done.

I think Manuel's older brother, Andronikos The Eagle, would've possibly been the same height or even taller at around 6'5 🤣🤣🤣.

 

[Averious]

I think Manuel's older brother, Andronikos The Eagle, would've possibly been the same height or even taller at around 6'5 🤣🤣🤣.

Honestly viewed Andronikos the Eagle as being around John’s 6ft height. Manuel’s sorta a lanky, really tall, ‘nerd’ type by contrast.

 

[A Random Man]

Honestly viewed Andronikos the Eagle as being around John’s 6ft height. Manuel’s sorta a lanky, really tall, ‘nerd’ type by contrast.

Like Sheldon Cooper from TBBT

 

[Whiteshore]

Prince John is roughly 6’2 already—and built like a bull. Imperial Prince Manuel is 6’4—he’s a notable anomaly, and likely inherited it through the large amount of intermixing the Palaiologi have done. His own father, Emperor John V, is around 6ft, and Andronikos was 6’1, so John V is slightly shorter than his father was.

Considering how much intermarriage there’s been very soon everyone will have Andronikos III as a common ancestor 🤣

Although, one thing that definitely intrigues me is just how ethnically mixed the Palaiologi are now. There’s a massive portion of Bulgarian and Latin in there, and very little Romaioi at this point.

How tall will Sophia be, then?

 

[A Random Man]

How tall will Sophia be, then?

I'd go somewhere from 5'7 to 5'10

 

[Piebald Brigade]

I honestly could see Sophia as tall as 5’11, like Mary, Queen of Scots or Mary II. The Plantagenets were a tall dynasty too. I think the record was Lionel, Duke of Clarence at nearly seven feet, but Edward IV was also slightly over 6’4 (6’7 in armor).

All a roll of the dice though!