A Better Rifle at Halloween

Our conception of War Crimes is largely a post ww2 thing. I seem to recall that Churchill simply wanted the top nazis executed, the British executed Moran and Hancock but it was for murder rather than any specific war crimes.
Command responsibility is not as well established in 1914 as it was in 1945. I am thinking about how this will go because there are a number of officers who might face a similar set of challenges.
 
Err. The liner was sunk by a sub firing three torpedos in two salvoes. And there are hundreds (I hope) of witnesses of that. Whatever history Berlin concocts (Churchill ordered a British sub to do it...*) will not be believed even by the Germans themselves
Uh... not exactly:
  1. Those on board the liner know that she was sunk after a number of underwater(?) explosions. They're guessing it's torpedoes but it could potentially have been a drifting mine followed by a secondary explosion in the coal bunkers (not unknown - quite probably happened to the Lusitania in fact).
  2. Those on board know that they fired torpedoes on a particular date and they may have been told they hit something.
  3. The CO knows what he thinks he fired at and where. When debriefed (and assuming the news gets out from the UK before he gets home, which is quite probable), he'll firmly be told that he fired at a tramp steamer somewhere else and missed.
  4. The official German position will be that it's nothing to do with them, and claims to the contrary are just atrocity propaganda. Provided the submarine CO keeps his mouth shut, they're no worse off than they were to start with.
 
Uh... not exactly:
  1. Those on board the liner know that she was sunk after a number of underwater(?) explosions. They're guessing it's torpedoes but it could potentially have been a drifting mine followed by a secondary explosion in the coal bunkers (not unknown - quite probably happened to the Lusitania in fact).
  2. Those on board know that they fired torpedoes on a particular date and they may have been told they hit something.
  3. The CO knows what he thinks he fired at and where. When debriefed (and assuming the news gets out from the UK before he gets home, which is quite probable), he'll firmly be told that he fired at a tramp steamer somewhere else and missed.
  4. The official German position will be that it's nothing to do with them, and claims to the contrary are just atrocity propaganda. Provided the submarine CO keeps his mouth shut, they're no worse off than they were to start with.
That is a good point, the British and French only realised that she had been torpedoed when they found fragments after she made it to port. They believed she had originally been mined. We still have two sailors amongst the survivors and they may or may not know what happened, nevertheless there will be considerable conjecture and finger pointing.
 
That is a good point, the British and French only realised that she had been torpedoed when they found fragments after she made it to port. They believed she had originally been mined. We still have two sailors amongst the survivors and they may or may not know what happened, nevertheless there will be considerable conjecture and finger pointing.
I hadn't realised that, but reading up on it I rather suspect nobody will be thinking of submarines on the Allied side. Initial reports were about either a mine or a boiler explosion, even though a periscope had been sighted. Here, nobody seems to have spotted the periscope.
The Amiral Ganteaume eventually made it to Boulogne, where her crew stated that she had not hit a mine but that the ship’s boiler had exploded. Most of the passengers who had been thrown into the sea were rescued by fishing boats out of Boulogne. With watertight bulkheads closed, the Amiral Ganteaume was towed to Bordeaux where she arrived on 27 October and was examined.

The official inquiry took place in Paris where the captain of the Amiral Ganteaume said that Napier & Miller in Glasgow had built the ship in 1902 and that the operator was Chargeurs Réunis of Havre. He went on to say that the vessel had been torpedoed on the starboard side between the engine and the stokehold. The helmsman had seen the periscope of a submarine. A formidable explosion had occurred raising a column of water about 50-yards high.

The examination of the Amiral Ganteaume found that in one of the damaged lifeboats fragments of a German torpedo was discovered. This, French and British experts stated, proved that the vessel was torpedoed by a German submarine. They provided photographs that included ones showing the torpedo fragment.

The conclusion was that the ship had been subject to a torpedo attack without military excuse. With the help of the Channel steamer Queen and the trawler Sagaie nearly all the 2,500 passengers were rescued. Four engine-room hands were killed by the explosion and 20 passengers, consisting of old men, women and children. Finally, the attack was the first recorded attempt made to sink a passenger vessel.
 
The Trap Shuts
11th October 1914, Dion le Val.

The fighting had been going on since dawn, French infantry attacking the emplaced defenders of Dion le Val. The Germans were part of an ersatz brigade formed as a blocking force. This unit had been cobbled together from stragglers, line of communications troops and various others under the evacuation orders issued by General von Boehn. With the defeat at Mont Saint Guibert the Germans were just trying to hold open the neck of the sack to allow as many men out as possible. Formations were being created out of whatever manpower was available, with predictable results. Stragglers and deserters were roaming the countryside, units were getting lost, equipment was being abandoned and chaos was clearly winning.

All along the line of march southeast towards Second Army, there were French cavalry units trying to outflank the various blocking forces. The outmatched and outnumbered German Horse were trying and failing in most cases to blunt their penetrations.

The French cavalry was being used profligately, unlike their British counterparts they were still traditionally equipped and trained. They used sword or lance, their ranged weapon a carbine like their German enemies, this limited the effectiveness of their fire. In addition, they had the cavalry equivalent of the spirit of the bayonet, they viewed themselves as a shock arm, to close at the charge with lance and sword was their reason for existence.

When it worked it was devastating, a French Cavalry squadron tore apart a mixed force of Germans retreating on foot, by the time the massacre had ended scarcely one man in twenty was left alive. The Germans, a railway transport company caught in open ground, were exhausted, hungry and badly led, they broke almost immediately, fleeing from the onrushing horse. Each lancer was able to pick his quarry as they ran, lances couched they cantered after their prey, the French a long line of glittering spearpoints glinting in the sun, the Germans a panting line of older men, struggling, falling. The lances dipped, drove and came up bloodied, some lancers to their eternal shame missed the easiest of targets, but wheeling round they, tried again, where lances had been lost or broken, sabres were drawn. Little clots of men had survived the first strike, but not the second or third. Soon that road and the adjacent field was dotted with bodies. The cavalry paused, regrouped and continued their patrol.

For another cavalry unit the result differed, they were advancing down a narrow road, hedged in by trees on either side, the ambush was nearly perfectly conducted, the Germans had moved a machine gun into a farmhouse which commanded the lane, the rest of the German unit was positioned to cover the machine gun.

The machine gun opened fire, long sewing machine rips of fire cutting down men and horses alike. A few cavalrymen survived, recognising the trap they ran the gauntlet whilst their comrades died, the survivors did fulfil one small part of their mission. They had found the edge of the German defences, and that position was added to the map General Maunoury’s staff albeit at pyric cost.

The fight for Dion le Val was like the battle for Mont Saint Guibert but on a smaller scale, proceeded by artillery the French infantry attacked. The gunners were skilfully keeping a heavy fire on the ad hoc defences, suppressing the German infantry until their comrades had advanced to within 200m.

The Germans their morale weakened by the events of the past few days and lacking the cohesion of properly formed and trained units fought back but in a lacklustre way. Some men taking the opportunity to retire from the fight, leaking back towards the north in ones and twos. The unit’s leadership was no more elite than their troops, some of the officers were landwehr men who had served in the infantry in their youth, others were technical specialists pressed into command roles ill-suited to their temperaments.

The fight was sharp and disagreeable from the German perspective, they lacked any machine guns and the French had learnt some important lessons over the last few weeks. The artillery was shooting the French onto the front line, they were accepting the risks of rounds falling short to keep the defenders in cover longer. The other tactical innovation the French had developed was one pioneered by the Moroccans, they had opened their formation up, increasing the spacings between individuals.

The French buoyed by a rising confidence in victory washed over the defenders, the Germans did not remain to contest the line, some men merely threw down their arms. Others turned tail and fled, soon the fight for Dion le Val was over, the French disorganised by the battle paused briefly, before resuming their advance North. The Germans routed now, fled, some to the illusory safety of the Second Army. Others perhaps confused headed west back towards Brussels, some simply stumbled away heading headlong into closing jaws of the trap.

Disadvantaged by the local geography the German army plodded slowly east, behind it the detritus of a defeated force, guns, limbers anything that broke down was simply dumped. But as panic slowly set in, the discards started to include rifles ammunition, greatcoats, anything that slowed a man as he slowly made their way to the east. The poor roads hampered progress, and as the day wore on what had started out as a withdrawal gradually disintegrated into a collapse. Many men simply gave up, unwilling to march further, more than one officer was compelled to use force to induce compliance, as they ordered footsore and weary men to continue to march. By nightfall it no longer resembled an army it was merely a mob, in place of discipline came terror. Unable to resist the French, it recoiled from contact, the now rapidly closing stricture that was 6th army choking off further escape. Trapping many of the erstwhile escapees on the wrong side of the lines, General von Boehn’s scheme had only partially succeeded.

For those men who had escaped the clutches of the French and Belgian armies the rout continued, some would meekly surrender, others faced with collapse of military discipline became like than beasts, rapine, murder and worse. For those men on the wrong side of the French line, it was as above but worsened with the bitter knowledge that the future at best held a prison camp or at worst a grave. Footsore, weary and completely demoralised, some turned their heads to the west and marched back towards Brussels, some men made other choices.
 
Diesal, It's a good timeline but WHERE is the new rifle that you introduced at the beginning of the story but as far as I can see has not made a bit of difference?
 
Diesal, It's a good timeline but WHERE is the new rifle that you introduced at the beginning of the story but as far as I can see has not made a bit of difference?
I am sorry, maybe I should write some more British chapters. It hasn't made any difference yet, but it might. I had plans to have the Cameron's and Seaforths brigade blunt the attack at messines but that didn't happen. Don't worry about we will get to it.
 
Diesal, It's a good timeline but WHERE is the new rifle that you introduced at the beginning of the story but as far as I can see has not made a bit of difference?
It’s watching in awe as the changes to doctrine, attitudes and strategic momentum required to get it to the frontlines by 31st October in a meaningful way have completely upended the progression of the war due to their knock-on effects.
 
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It’s watching in awe as the changes to doctrine, attitudes and strategic momentum required to get it to the frontlines by 31st October in a meaningful way have completely upended the progression of the war due to their knock-on effects.
I pulled a thread, and the whole damn thing unwound. I have sort of got a plan for where we are going on this journey but some of it is planned a lot of it is not, it also depends on where I am with my reading and writing. Trying to think of a way to plausibly include the emir of bokhara who has only entered my thinking because I was working with Kazakh and I was curious about their actions during ww1.
 
Diesal, It's a good timeline but WHERE is the new rifle that you introduced at the beginning of the story but as far as I can see has not made a bit of difference?
At this rate, we’ll find it being used by a Highland Motor Machine Gun Brigade’s combined arms Jock Columns conducting Thunder Runs towards the Rhine bridges in Cologne.
This is one of those good TLs where the butterfly effect is entirely reasonable and you almost suspect the author is trying to find ways of limiting it becoming a wank.

At this rate, though, unless the Sutherland Higherlanders develop Walking Fire, I’m not entirely sure what position the rifles can be rushed to for maximum effect as it seems the time for major German offensives has passed.
 
At this rate, we’ll find it being used by a Highland Motor Machine Gun Brigade’s combined arms Jock Columns conducting Thunder Runs towards the Rhine bridges in Cologne.
This is one of those good TLs where the butterfly effect is entirely reasonable and you almost suspect the author is trying to find ways of limiting it becoming a wank.

At this rate, though, unless the Sutherland Higherlanders develop Walking Fire, I’m not entirely sure what position the rifles can be rushed to for maximum effect as it seems the time for major German offensives has passed.
I like that idea. Anyway the next chapter will include the rifle, I promise, but currently at 38000 feet in a 737 so there are some risks.
 
be careful on spending more than optimal amount of energy on battle scene... there are thousands battle happening every week in ww1, each one as critical to the war as the last, and even if you spends all you life i don't think anyone can document them all in a TL.
 
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At this rate, though, unless the Sutherland Higherlanders develop Walking Fire, I’m not entirely sure what position the rifles can be rushed to for maximum effect as it seems the time for major German offensives has passed.
There's the fight to clear Brussels of a Teutonic infestation to come, where an effective SLR will give a clear advantage. Urban fighting is nasty and being able to get of a second shot without having to work the bolt is a life saver.
 
I like that idea. Anyway the next chapter will include the rifle, I promise, but currently at 38000 feet in a 737 so there are some risks.
The NG models are perfectly safe. If it’s a MAX I might prefer a Farman FE.2 (hint hint)
There's the fight to clear Brussels of a Teutonic infestation to come, where an effective SLR will give a clear advantage. Urban fighting is nasty and being able to get of a second shot without having to work the bolt is a life saver.
True. An SLR, and every bomb, Madsen, Remington and Purdey one can get one’s hands on. Who knows, someone may want to order an “artillery Webley Automatic” and a bit longer barrel and a detachable stock like the Lugers. And then a tinkerer in the field might make it fire on an open bolt and send the plans back to Webley.
 
There's the fight to clear Brussels of a Teutonic infestation to come, where an effective SLR will give a clear advantage. Urban fighting is nasty and being able to get of a second shot without having to work the bolt is a life saver.
On the flip side, why risk the RA & Terriers in Brussels when you can pack them in a Clapham omnibus, scout the way out in advance by flying machines and try and seize a logistics node somewhere in the German’s rear while the front line is still porous?

Not necessarily a bridge over the Rhine, yet, but…
 
The NG models are perfectly safe. If it’s a MAX I might prefer a Farman FE.2 (hint hint)

True. An SLR, and every bomb, Madsen, Remington and Purdey one can get one’s hands on. Who knows, someone may want to order an “artillery Webley Automatic” and a bit longer barrel and a detachable stock like the Lugers. And then a tinkerer in the field might make it fire on an open bolt and send the plans back to Webley.
A Webley on fully auto, even with a stock and a long barrel would give less than a half second's firing and be totally uncontrollable.
 
There's the fight to clear Brussels of a Teutonic infestation to come, where an effective SLR will give a clear advantage. Urban fighting is nasty and being able to get of a second shot without having to work the bolt is a life saver.
A Webley on fully auto, even with a stock and a long barrel would give less than a half second's firing and be totally uncontrollable.
I like it
 
A Webley on fully auto, even with a stock and a long barrel would give less than a half second's firing and be totally uncontrollable.
Wouldn’t one then “merely” increase the mass of the bolt? It’ll be as unusable as a Glock 18, but a necessary stepping stone to an SMG. Preferably better than the Sten, while still cheaper than the Lanchester or Thompson?

Alternatively, I can see Webley designers arguing for a lighter calibre version, maybe in .32 or .380ACP. Move the mag well out of the grip (like Winnie’s personal Mauser C96) to make it accept a double stack magazine (like the SMLE) and you’ve got a VZ.61 Scorpion.
 
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