The challenge is what it says on the tin. With a POD of 1860 and after, make Bulgaria, Italy, the Ottoman Empire, Spain, and Sweden, strong allies for the German Empire for the oncoming World War 1 so they're carrying their weight and being an effective member of the Central Powers that doesn't need at least some kind of German assistance every couple of offensives in said war unlike OTL where only Bulgaria managed to be the big lesser Central Power to Germany. I was thinking maybe Italy does well in the Austro-Prussian War and gains more of Austria's Italian Land, Austria intervenes in the Franco-Prussian War while France goes to war with Spain who is ruled by Leopold and Russia decides to align itself with Prussia in this endeavor along with Italy and the four win against the Austro=French Alliance with Austria being partitioned with Italy gaining Dalmatia, Slovenia, and some of the lands they claimed from Austria as well as Nice, Savoy, Corsica, and maybe Tunisia from France, Germany gets Alsace-Lorraine and a plebiscite is held by the German speaking regions of Austria-Hungary on if they want to join the German Empire or if they want to remain a separate state, Russia annexes land east of the Carpathians, Serbia is allowed to annex Bosnia, Croatia, and Montenegro, and Hungary, Czechia, and Slovakia maintains Independence with Russo-German influence in some capacity. Spain modernizes under Leopold and there is no SAW. Is any of this potentially possible?
AHC : Make Bulgaria, Italy, Ottomans, Spain, and Sweden strong Allies for Germany in WW1
- Thread starter TheDoofusUser
- Start date
I thinkyou would need to split Austria Hungary between Germany and Italy. For example:Germany gaining Bohemia and Austria as vassal and Italy gaining Dalmatia, and has Hungary as its independent state with strong ties with Berlin. Also the Hollenzollerns would inherit the throne in Spain and recieve German support in industrilalising and as for Bulgaria and the Ottomans, you kind of need to sacrifice one to make the other stronger, and alas I'm not an expert in Sweden (and to the whole time period in general), so I can't provide much insight in that, so take my word with a grain of salt, but I wish I could contribute as much as I could, so yeah.
I would say that such drastic change that any of them ends up "pulling their weight" alters the diplomatic makeup enough that there may well not be something like WW1.
An 1860 POD probably butterflies anything resembling OTL's WWI. Certainly another 20th Century war might erupt, but depending on what changes occur between then and 1860 talking about "WWI" is kind of meaningless.
pls don't ban me
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to be honest Bulgaria, proportionally speaking, was the strongest ally Germany had. they helped take down Serbia, steamrolled Romania and defeated the British at Doiran. This after being humiliated in 1913 in the second Balkan war (first national catastrophe).
if you want them stronger make tsar Ferdinand to simply not start he second Balkan war. This way Bulgaria will be a lot stronger, still holding resentment for macedonia and able to stomp even more. Also make Ivan Kolev not die "suddenly" in 1917.
if you want them stronger make tsar Ferdinand to simply not start he second Balkan war. This way Bulgaria will be a lot stronger, still holding resentment for macedonia and able to stomp even more. Also make Ivan Kolev not die "suddenly" in 1917.
Bulgarian Lion
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In Bulgaria, a more decisive purge of the fifth column of the Entente must be carried out, using wartime justice, because it was they and the mistakes of our command that led to the withdrawal of Bulgaria from the war after the Dobro Pole Breakthrough in September 1918. The Ottoman Empire would have fought more if Bulgaria had lasted longer because it is in the hinterland of its capital Istanbul. Also, if it were not for the Young Turk Revolution, from which the secularization of the Empire began, the outbreak of the Arab Revolt would not have been possible, or it would have been limited only to the Shiites and Ibadites, and the Sunni Arabs would have taken an active part in its suppression, which would have sharply to reduce its effectiveness and lead to more Muslim uprisings against the Entente countries in response to the Caliph's calls. For Italy, Germany had to force Austria-Hungary to make concessions in its favor on territories with an Italian majority, just as it forced the Ottoman Empire in our Bulgarian favor to make small concessions in South-Eastern Thrace - still through Italy they could open a second front against France, which in 1914 could cost her Paris and even the war, while Bulgaria blocked Russia indirectly, and would also divert Anglo-French troops against Libya, Eritrea and Somalia. For Spain she had somehow to keep her colonies before she could think of going to war against France and Great Britain, but the Swedes, as a neutral country, played a greater part for Germany than they would have played if they had been part of the Central forces, because through them passed the German sealed train with the Bolsheviks, whose destructive activity and revolution took Russia out of the war and delayed the German defeat by nearly half a year.
I think making Italy perform better in the war of 1866 is useful but that chaos that you made when everybody declares war on everybody is not useful as nobody would want Austria-Hungary to collapse here the most pro-German timeline I can come up with:
Italy when it was Piedmont-Sardinia had a very effective army however once they unified Italy the army was neglected instead in this timeline they keep on desiring expansion which needs a capable army that is why during the war of 1866 they will manage to conquer Veneto, Trentino and Istria. Emboldened by these military successes the King decides that having a powerful army is essential for the future of Italy.
Spain after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 will be under a Hollenzollern king and will receive the help of Germany in industrializing which leads to the humiliation of the U.S. in the Spanish-American War as Spain maintains its dominance over the Caribbean.
For Sweden the best thing would be if they remain in a personal union with Norway up until WW1 and they have a military service for both man and women.
Austria-Hungary is better led and manages to overcome the difficulties of its multiple ethnicities by dividing battalions along linguistic lines and their armies are much better equipped than in our timeline.
The Ottomans are ineffective however changing their leadership isn't the solution as the Young Turks were the only faction which desired to get involved in the Great War on the Central Power's side.
As for the Bulgarians the best option is that the Great Powers enforce the borders instead of letting Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece decide it among themselves, however Tsar Ferdinand feels betrayed by its former ally Serbia as it refused to give lands as for their treaty before the war.
Also the Germans manage to create a pro-German party in the Netherlands which accepts to let German troops pass trough its border and potentially join the war on Germany's side.
After the shooting of Franz Ferdinand war erupts in Europe, Germany still invades trough Belgium and the invasion goes a little bit better than in our timeline also Spain intervenes in the South which many troops to be diverted.
The more effective Austrian army manages to make small gain against Russia and makes slow but steady advances on the Serbian front.
The Ottomans join the war but don't waste resources on the Caucasus and attack the British, they are repelled from Egypt but manage to conquer Kuwait.
Italy as it has much less claims on Austria-Hungary decides to join the Central Powers and attacks France in the Alpes and the British Egypt.
Bulgaria joins and takes out Serbia with Austria-Hungary.
Sweden-Norway joins the war and manages to conquer many territories in the under-garrisoned Finland
Seeing how the war is going Greece and Romania don't want to join the Entente as it is clear that the Central Powers are having the upper-hand.
In Summer 1917 Russia has a Bolshevik coup an the Bolsheviks accept signing a peace-treaty after a final German offensive.
France is exhausted by the war on three (!) fronts and after a final German offensive the war is over
Italy when it was Piedmont-Sardinia had a very effective army however once they unified Italy the army was neglected instead in this timeline they keep on desiring expansion which needs a capable army that is why during the war of 1866 they will manage to conquer Veneto, Trentino and Istria. Emboldened by these military successes the King decides that having a powerful army is essential for the future of Italy.
Spain after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 will be under a Hollenzollern king and will receive the help of Germany in industrializing which leads to the humiliation of the U.S. in the Spanish-American War as Spain maintains its dominance over the Caribbean.
For Sweden the best thing would be if they remain in a personal union with Norway up until WW1 and they have a military service for both man and women.
Austria-Hungary is better led and manages to overcome the difficulties of its multiple ethnicities by dividing battalions along linguistic lines and their armies are much better equipped than in our timeline.
The Ottomans are ineffective however changing their leadership isn't the solution as the Young Turks were the only faction which desired to get involved in the Great War on the Central Power's side.
As for the Bulgarians the best option is that the Great Powers enforce the borders instead of letting Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece decide it among themselves, however Tsar Ferdinand feels betrayed by its former ally Serbia as it refused to give lands as for their treaty before the war.
Also the Germans manage to create a pro-German party in the Netherlands which accepts to let German troops pass trough its border and potentially join the war on Germany's side.
After the shooting of Franz Ferdinand war erupts in Europe, Germany still invades trough Belgium and the invasion goes a little bit better than in our timeline also Spain intervenes in the South which many troops to be diverted.
The more effective Austrian army manages to make small gain against Russia and makes slow but steady advances on the Serbian front.
The Ottomans join the war but don't waste resources on the Caucasus and attack the British, they are repelled from Egypt but manage to conquer Kuwait.
Italy as it has much less claims on Austria-Hungary decides to join the Central Powers and attacks France in the Alpes and the British Egypt.
Bulgaria joins and takes out Serbia with Austria-Hungary.
Sweden-Norway joins the war and manages to conquer many territories in the under-garrisoned Finland
Seeing how the war is going Greece and Romania don't want to join the Entente as it is clear that the Central Powers are having the upper-hand.
In Summer 1917 Russia has a Bolshevik coup an the Bolsheviks accept signing a peace-treaty after a final German offensive.
France is exhausted by the war on three (!) fronts and after a final German offensive the war is over
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For the challenge above with minimal butterflies:
1913: Have Bulgaria avoid the Second Balkan War with a pod between the First and the Second Balkan Wars.
1914: After Archduke Franz Ferdinand's assassination and WW1 started, the Russians failed to get Admiral Essen to return to Kronstadt on time and Russia proceeded to sink the Swedish Navy, causing the Swedes to join WW1 against Russia. The Russians transferred troops in Finland and Petrograd to defend Finland, but the proximity of Finland to the Russian capital of Petrograd would divert Russian troops to Finland from the Caucasus and improve Ottoman performance for the Central Powers. Otherwise, WW1 in 1914 proceeded more or less as in otl.
1915: The Ottomans would perform better in the Caucasus and the transfer of Russian troops from the Caucasus to Finland would keep Italy neutral. Russia would recapture Finland for itself. The Ottomans, with a better performance for itself in the Caucasus, would be able to do better against Russia and at Gallipoli. Bulgaria would join the Central Powers as in otl and the Austro-Hungarian 5th Army not being needed in Italy and being used in Serbia would result in more of the Serbian Army being destroyed in Serbia in 1915.
1916: With the neutrality of Italy, the Austro-Hungarian Army would be able to defeat the Brusilov Offensive and avoid territorial losses (at least in the July-August phase of the offensive) to the extent of encouraging Romanian neutrality. The Russian troops staying near Romania would be transferred to continue the Brusilov Offensive, but the German, Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman troops used in Romania would be able to defend the Carpathians and stop the Brusilov Offensive. The Bulgarians, without the destroyed Serbian and neutralised Romanian Armies, would be able to use the Struma Offensive as an opportunity to neutralise Greece and the Entente by taking Kavala and Salonika, forcing the Entente troops, without Serbian and Greek soldiers and without Salonika as a resupply route, to intern themselves together with Venezelists in neutralised Greek territory. The Ottomans would take more territory from Russia despite Russia taking more territory from Finland and Sweden. Rest of WW1 as in otl.
1917: The Germans would go for unrestricted submarine warfare as in otl, but the Swedish and other Scandinavian minorities would make it a bit more difficult for the United States to send troops to France. The German resources used in Caporetto would be used in Verdun and divert the otl British and French troops in Italy to Verdun in a failed attempt to defend the city after the previous year's battle there. After the French loss of Verdun, the Italians and the Spanish joined the Central Powers and diverted American and French troops to the French-Italian border. Romania would be neutral for WW1. Rest of WW1 as in otl.
1918: With Russia, Serbia and Montenegro surrendered, Romania and Greece neutral and the Bulgarians and Austro-Hungarians strong and having nothing else to do, the Spring Offensive, aided by Italians, Spaniards, Bulgarians and Austro-Hungarians in diverting the Americans to Southern France, would succeed in knocking out France and defeating the Entente from WW1 through advances from southern France to Paris diverting French troops and causing a German victory at the Second Battle of the Marne. Central Powers victory.
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pls don't ban me
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peace:
- Italy takes Tunisia, Savoy, Nice, Djibouti and maybe British Somalia.
-Spain takes Gibraltar, and the Portuguese colonies?
-Bulgaria take what was left of Macedonia and Nish.
-AH takes what is left of Serbia, establish a puppet state in Ukraine and a join control over Albania with Italy
-Germany takes a piece of Belgium, annexes Luxemburg, border correction with France ( France also cedes North pas de Calais to Belgium) and makes MIttel Africa dream while leaving to France control over the north-west colonies. Indochina is transferred to Germany while the colonies occupied by Japan are lost
Spain doesn't take the Portuguese colonies as Portugal would exit the war if Spain joins as they don't want to directly fight, Spain would take Morocco and some other French colonies in Africa, also some small border changes in Europe.
Albanian coast is Italian, the rest is Austro-Hungarian puppet, Ukraine isn't AH it's obviously German.
Serbia & Montenegro aren't annexed but puppeted, Romania loses Dobruja but gains Bessarabia, Bulgaria would gain all of Macedonia and Thessaloniki from the Greeks.
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Yes, but the whole point of the scenario is to change things from 1870 onwards to make the ideal world for Imperial Germany