AHC/WI: Intermarium is a success?

How could the idea of Intermarium be a success and get serious support from people other than Pilsudski? If it was formed, could it last? How would WWII be changed, if it even happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium

It seems like it was just an excuse for Poland to try and dominate all of the other countries, which makes sustainability impossible. It doesn't help that it seeks to incorporate a lot of countries with territorial claims against each other. I can't imagine something this big and riddled with contradictions being made to work.
 
Polish dominated eastern Europe it would have opposition from so many people it wouldn't last to 1950.

This is a Polish-dominated Eastern and Central Europe, Balkans included. It's ridiculous, and the fact that it was Pilsudski's baby tells you why Poland went to war with so many people in the interwar period.
 

thaddeus

Donor
Poland and Romania? end result Romania invaded along with Poland Sept. '39 (with a more expansive alliance than they had IOTL)
 

Magical123

Banned
But is Poland a worse overlord than Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia?
Not necessarily by any means just having Poland a country itself dominated for the previous 200 years or so running that region ethnically fractious as it already is would engender lots and lots of bad blood.
 
But is Poland a worse overlord than Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia?

No, but Appeal to Worse Imperialists seems like one of the better arguments for this arrangement. For trying it, anyways, since the fact remains that this would never work.
 

Hnau

Banned
Here is a possibility I see: the Intermarium is formed following amazing success by the Pilsudski adminsitration, it embraces democratic reform to stave off independence movements, Dmowski's followers are spurned and exiled, multiculturalism is embraced, as is the practice of investing massive amounts of public funds into militarization. There would still probably have to be crackdowns against dissent at some point, but native forces would have to decide to hold on to the fragile confederal structure that would develop. Essentially, this would be a European Union of eastern Europe united by Pilsudski's iron-will and successful collaboration with disparate parties and organizations. I imagine there would be widescale deportations of Russians to the Soviet Union and Jews to Israel as the federal government pursues a populist-authoritarian model similar to fascism. They manage to put together a nuclear program with a warhead in the works by 1944, and for some reason their military is large enough that the Nazi Germans and Soviet Union decide not to attack, fearing a long war that would open them up to attack by the Western powers. Instead, the Soviet Union launches itself into a war for China against Japan. By 1946, with the invasion of Sudetenland and the Polish corridor, the secession of Finland, and the invasion of Ukraine ongoing after the annexation of China and the nations of Indochina, the Intermarium stuns the world by detonating a nuclear weapon over a major Konigsberg military base. It is followed with an entire German army obliterated by a timed-detonation of a series of nuclear mines, a tactic that is replicated with similar great effect against the clueless Russian commanders that had reached Romania in a blitzkrieg assault. The war is ended with a promise to return to the status quo ante bellum. Soviet soldiers withdraw en masse from Belarus back into Russia proper.

The Intermarium Federation is maintained and experiences further democratic reform, as well as the development of its own eastern european culture. The Nazis endure until the 1960s, when they are toppled by popular protests following the death of Hitler. The Soviet Union develops nuclear weapons, as does the United States and the Western powers. The Cold War takes place with the Intermarium being the doorstep to the West, and China remains closed to the world. Japan transitions from an empire into a modernized constitutional monarchy. Eventually, in the 1980s a new generation decides to topple the aging communist governments. China becomes independent, finally, as does Korea and the Indochinese countries. The new millennium starts amid a spring of nations across Eurasiona.
 
This premature revolt is delayed, allowing the planned coup against Lithuania to succeed (little green men and all). So that's Lithuania.

Next we have north-western Ukraine, which Poland actually conquered up to and including Kiev, and which was supposed to be a sort of puppet state bound in a federation. Prevent or defeat the Soviet counterattack, and you get that area as well.

Then there's Belarus (including Minsk), which Poland occupied at the time. Give them victory over the main Russian state (Soviet or otherwise) and they get to keep it.

Lastly there's Latvia, where a most confusing conflict was taking place. Have the Baltic Germans and Russian Allies (strange, I know) temporarily win out, and then Poland comes in, 'liberates' the country, and stays on.

Polan Stronk map:
1024px-PBW_June_1920.jpg
 
That map looks fairly plausible.

I imagine there would be widescale deportations of Russians to the Soviet Union and Jews to Israel

Interwar Poland was not a xenophobic country as you seem to think. On the contrary, it was ethnically diverse, with large Jewish, Belarussian and Ukrainian populations. Jewish deportations are out. Barring some sort of a Soviet-Polish crisis, Russian deportations won't happen either.
 
That map looks fairly plausible.



Interwar Poland was not a xenophobic country as you seem to think. On the contrary, it was ethnically diverse, with large Jewish, Belarussian and Ukrainian populations. Jewish deportations are out. Barring some sort of a Soviet-Polish crisis, Russian deportations won't happen either.

Until 1935, tolerance was part of the government's official policies (can't very well work toward a multiethnic empire if you hate your neighbors). Antisemitism gained some government backing after 1935, though even then deportation schemes were not considered feasible.

A Polish-dominated Lithuania and Ruthenia is easy enough--just win bigger in the Polish-Soviet War. But that doesn't quite get you to the Black Sea (kind of important for Miedzymorze). For that, you'd have to get a much closer Polish-Romanian Alliance--Romania joins the Polish-Soviet War and takes Odessa. Then you need at least Super Poland and Romania to federate--how? Polish monarchists wanted to crown the Romanian regent as King, IIRC, so maybe some kind of personal union can happen, but they were not popular, and a personal union just isn't as significant in the 1930s as the 1430s.

Then there's Czechoslovakia, whose manufacturing strength is necessary for a strong Miedzymorze economy--otherwise you just have Poland and Romania plus the poorer parts of Ukraine. Avoid the Cieszyn War, and an alliance is possible (particularly after the Treaty of Locarno, which telegraphed Entente apathy toward Eastern Europe).
 
Until 1935, tolerance was part of the government's official policies (can't very well work toward a multiethnic empire if you hate your neighbors). Antisemitism gained some government backing after 1935, though even then deportation schemes were not considered feasible.

A Polish-dominated Lithuania and Ruthenia is easy enough--just win bigger in the Polish-Soviet War. But that doesn't quite get you to the Black Sea (kind of important for Miedzymorze). For that, you'd have to get a much closer Polish-Romanian Alliance--Romania joins the Polish-Soviet War and takes Odessa. Then you need at least Super Poland and Romania to federate--how? Polish monarchists wanted to crown the Romanian regent as King, IIRC, so maybe some kind of personal union can happen, but they were not popular, and a personal union just isn't as significant in the 1930s as the 1430s.

Then there's Czechoslovakia, whose manufacturing strength is necessary for a strong Miedzymorze economy--otherwise you just have Poland and Romania plus the poorer parts of Ukraine. Avoid the Cieszyn War, and an alliance is possible (particularly after the Treaty of Locarno, which telegraphed Entente apathy toward Eastern Europe).

Romania would never, ever agree to have government decisions be, partially or completely, influenced by other nations. Greater Romania had just been achieved (even though it took a second war with Hungary to do it), and that was culmination of every Romanian's political desire - it would be the equivalent progressives finally seeing America become Denmark or the alt-right seeing it become 1930s fascist Italy. That sort of achievement is not going to be given away under any circumstance. At that point, nationalistic sentiment was probably the highest ever in Romania.

A military alliance of convenience? Yes.
Some sort of mutual minor tariff reduction agreement? Possibly, until the next government comes in. (there wasn't that much trade with Poland anyway IIRC)
Personal union? Maaaybe, King Ferdinand is allowed to also assume the Polish throne if the Poles actually offer it for some strange reason (I understand that it was basically a fringe idea anyway), but every political party would make it crystal-clear that Romanian interests would be the only ones considered wrt policy. Governments, laws etc would stay completely separate.

Bottom line - no way is Romania going to take part in a Polish federation unless it's literally done through the barrel of a gun.
 
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