Decades of Darkness

And Brazil and Portugal are not in a personal union, are they?

Strictly speaking, the only remaining Brazil is republican.

How did a government formed after an uprising angry with the peace terms Germany imposed on them after the war justify becoming a member of the GEEU, and effectively a military and economic vassal to the Germans, to it's citizens?

Italy was among Germany's satellite states ever since the Italian government signed the Vatican Treaty. Joining the GEU did actually improve the RoI's status by giving its government a say in the post-war European Order.

Well.......not quite genuine for everybody, though. I mean sure, you've got Hungary, Croatia, and possibly Denmark as legitimate allies of sorts, by 1935, but that'd be about it; everybody else is under German occupation.

You forgot Germany's most important and loyal ally, Poland. ;)
Speaking of Denmark, are Iceland and Greenland still integral Danish territories or semi-independent and outside the GEU?
Could they be used as locations for German bases or would the Jackals prevent it?

And that's what makes the GEU so different. At least OTL's E.U. didn't have that in mind.

The GEU is different, no doubt, but it's not the anti-thesis of the EU.

Actually, that is true, and perhaps the TL will go in that direction. But as far as I know, it's still up in the air at the moment. We'll just have to wait and see if Jared ever finishes that novel of his.

He will, believe it!
I will try to buy the published novel, no matter what.
 
OK - a speculative (quite) look at "Decades of Darkness" in 2011.

The 21st century has seen the start of a shift away from the long "Three Superpowers" era as the world shifts to a more multi-polar situation with South China steadily moving towards superpower status, with Bharat trailing some ways behind. Although the Indo-Pacific Alliance is too decentralized to count as a fourth superpower in itself, it has emerged as a great new zone of high-energy business, challenging the more statist economies of the older powers. Meanwhile, the Damocles Sword of Nuclear Fear continues to dangle above everyones head, and the older powers try to adjust to changes in their relative positions...

The Empire (nowadays thoroughly constitutional) of Russia and the Russian Federation of which it forms the core is still the greatest power on earth, forming a unified economic zone and political alliance of over a billion people. It has loosened up a bit around the edges and lost some of its more unwilling puppets as it has democratized, and occasional squabbles between member states ruffle feathers, but most of the members of the Federation are doing well enough that they see no reason to disrupt the arrangements of the biggest superpower. Indeed, perhaps the biggest problem arises from success - long a troubled and backwards region, the Chinese Empire has benefitted from being the Federation's principal cheap-labor pool to grow mightily economically: although still somewhat poorer than its southern Republican rival, and rather less populous, its economic weight within the Federation has grown greatly in the last thirty years - to the point where Russians begin to worry that one day their leadership of the Federation is bound to be challenged...

Germany is less happy: their economy (in GDP if not GNP terms) is being rapidly overtaken by the South Chinese, and their control of Greater European Union (formerly the Greater European Economic Union) is weak: Germany had to make some decisions about what kind of country it wanted to be after the turbulent 60s, and in the end it decided not to be the sort of country that makes "examples" out of large numbers of unarmed protestors and sends tanks into neighboring states whose political arrangements are diverging from what was previously imposed. This of course has prevented Germany from turning into something more on the lines of OTLs Third Reich or their USA, but it means that the German position in Europe is increasingly one of first among equals rather than Overlord. They've withdrawn all troops from England, let the French (mostly) reunite, let Montenegro pull out and join the Russians...and do they get gratitude? No, people just act as if this was something Germany had been forced to do and therefore nothing to praise. And now the Italians are talking "autonomy" within the Empire...it's enough to make one wonder if Germany did make the right choice back then.

The United States has expanded to pretty much the maximum attainable size (although there may be future possibilities in Africa) and is increasingly consumed with internal issues. The economy, although still growing, is falling behind the other Superpowers (not to mention the Indo-Pacific gang) in high tech and generally in high-value-added enterprises: too many of the population are serfs or only "partially free" in various degrees. Too, the continued and seemingly irreversible growth of the Security State now threatens the liberties of the ruling classes: there is no longer any clear physical distinction between slave and free, and everyone needs their papers at all times. Cameras are everywhere, police are everywhere, informers everywhere. Information services and the internet-equivalent are crippled by security measures - who wants a slave class with full internet access. Increasingly, there is pressure to bring everyone who at least looks white and can speak decent English into the ruling classes: with nearly 50% of the population various classes of non-or-partially-free, the system is looking increasingly inefficient and dangerous to its very rulers. Of course, there are those with very definite opinions about this - and in a state ultimately based on violent supression of dissent and anything even vaguely resembling rebellion, they have ways of expressing these opinions, even at the highest level of government, that the Marquis of Queensbury would not have approved of...

South China is a capitalist state, essentially one-party right-wing rather than one-party left: it started really growing its economy earlier than OTL China, although to some extent hampered by a less globalized economy and a lack of industrial resources due to its missing territories. It wants the North back, bad, but that is not all: it wants to put an end to the general domination of the world by European and European-derived powers. The Afro-Asian Pact is one arm of this effort, the development of an Africa and Asia for Africans and Asians: it has been rather successful in poaching associated members of the Renewed Empire and former German colonies as decolonization picked up steam in the 80s, and is on good terms with the Arab Association (although the Arabs have so far been unwilling to fully adopt South Chinese rhetoric and leadership).

This rather annoys Bharat, which has traditionally taken a neutral stance in world affairs, unwilling to be drawn into Superpower squabbles. It was Bharat which founded the effort to create an independent Asian movement, after all, before being drawn into a battle for leadership with South China, losing, and being cast into the outer darkness. Less economically successful (as OTL, British practices did not endear traditional capitalism to Indians), less well positioned with respect to the new economies of SE Asia, and less agressive (S. China developed its own nuke well in advance of Bharat), the north Indians have developed an angry rivalry with the other Asian giant, and are moving away from neutrality to greater friendship with the Russian Federation, which also does not have much fondness with the state which sponsors (at last count) at least 17 anti-Federation terrorist groups in northern Imperial China.

The Nuclear Fear has gone on far too long, and far too many shaky arms agreements have failed to put an end to it: the Russians and the Germans might be able to call a halt to their old rivalry, but neither trust the Americans enough to allow for a general step-down. There have been some nasty spots before - the New England Missile Crisis (which led to the US occupation of western Canada, nearly led to a nuclear war, and established the current neutral status of New England), the African Crisis (the collapse of the US-allied portuguese dictatorship led to disruptions in their colonial territory, and a territory-grabbing rush which led to military clashed between US and Restored Empire forces, and nearly expanded into something rather worse) and the Space Wars Crisis arising in the late 90s when the Russians rather badly disrupted the Balance of Terror by trying to build a truly effective orbitally based anti-missile system, which led the Americans to Spaz Out badly (the currently Joint International Space Development setup is dedicated to extending the Balance of Power into space as well as on Earth).

(The Germans and the Russians have had a couple unpleasant Moments of their own: missile flight times between German and Russian territory are short)

Bruce
 
And here's the map..

Bruce

DoD2011.png
 
Hi Jared I love your TL and will buy your novel should you get it published.:) And congradulations on your marrige may it last as long as this TL but happier of course.:):D
 

Highlander

Banned
@Bruno: wonderful and interesting speculation. A couple of points:

I don't honestly know if the USA would want to pick up any of those extra Canadian states - Jared has expressed that they would be reluctant to in the past. If they do, I could see it as the beginning as the end for them.

I like the growth of South China - so, I wonder if Cantonese is the equivalent of Mandarin IOTL? I would think that by this time the ultimate power of the Three Powers would be waning.
 
I don't honestly know if the USA would want to pick up any of those extra Canadian states - Jared has expressed that they would be reluctant to in the past. If they do, I could see it as the beginning as the end for them.

By his description of the *US in 2011, it looks like they are teetering on the razor's edge with the violent suppression of dissent.
 
@Bruno: wonderful and interesting speculation. A couple of points:

I don't honestly know if the USA would want to pick up any of those extra Canadian states - Jared has expressed that they would be reluctant to in the past. If they do, I could see it as the beginning as the end for them..

"Bruno???"

I assumed that the US population would have grown by this point to at least that of the OTL US (probably, what, somewhere between 100 and 50 times as many as the area they have swallowed so far?), to where they feel they can digest them, with some encouraged immigration (and emigration of the Wrong Sort), new education system, etc - and I _am_ assuming the System is getting into trouble by this time (I am afraid I kinda chickened out of a map with a post-systemic-collapse USA: I was really unsure how that would resolve itself).

@I like the growth of South China - so, I wonder if Cantonese is the equivalent of Mandarin IOTL? I would think that by this time the ultimate power of the Three Powers would be waning.

Yep, we are in transition to a more multi-polar system, and the increased wealth and democratization of at least two of the Powers makes it less likely that they will be willing to take Harsh Measures to prevent that from happening...

(My biggest uncertainty was over whether enough of a "north Chinese" identity would develop for them to not become a bleeding seperatist sore trying to unify with the south - I went the way I did in the end because, hey, I like Russia-wanks. :D . And it's not like there aren't N. Chinese nationalists who imagine themselves as future leaders of a greater Russian Federation including South China...)

Bruce
 
One problem with B_Munro's idea that I see is that North China is not going to become the demographic heavyweight in the Russian Federation under any reasonable scenario. Even if we just copy paste the OTL numbers its only 400 million, only equal to the 450+ million number for Russians (of all types) that Jared gave, who'll be a lot more economically powerful and have all the rest of the federation to counter balance with. Plus that 400 million is a very high estimate considering a) how harsh the 19th cen was on China, b) no migration to the northern cities as the OTL should have taken place, c) a likely movement South to the Republic, and d) a general more advanced economic profile under Russian direction would see a faster demographic transition. (Also I think reaching the Yangtze isn't quite right for the borders).

I also don't see why all the Asian and African countries would abandon the Australian-Japanese unaligned grouping for the unproven military strength and strategic position of a China dependent on external resources (in a world where military power is much more relevant than the OTL).

Also the USA profitably governing a hundred and fifty million *Nigerian as an overseas territory seems a bit of a stretch ;).
 
Beautiful work, Bruce.

Poor, poor Canada.

I'd imagine the US is bilingual by now?

Somehow, Jared managed to pull that off by the end of the original TL, although, TBH, given how U.S. society operates ITTL, I always found it to be at least quite improbable, if not perhaps borderline ASBish at times(please, Jared, no offense meant, I'm still a big fan of this TL).

@Bruce: O. M. Gee. That map........is simply amazing. :D :D Too bad about poor Canada though. :(
 

pike

Banned
Thank you B_Munro its good to see some one cares about making a realistic map of a american dominated Canada. Its about time these ASB Canada question mark poeple were put in there place on this TL.

The speculation is simply out of control.
 
One problem with B_Munro's idea that I see is that North China is not going to become the demographic heavyweight in the Russian Federation under any reasonable scenario.


I'm not saying that it is going to outnumber the Russians (not by any real margin) although I'll note that Chinese population growth OTL in the 20th century was actually pretty slow by third-world standards. What it is going to do is change the situation from one in which there is Big Brother Russia and a bunch of Little Brothers to one in which there are _two_ Big Brothers competing for the top spot. But I perhaps overstate the case.

I also don't see why all the Asian and African countries would abandon the Australian-Japanese unaligned grouping for the unproven military strength and strategic position of a China dependent on external resources (in a world where military power is much more relevant than the OTL).


Well, this is a fairly recent shift to alignment with a south China that is nuclear-armed and growing at a tremendous clip: and I dislike the British empire enough to suspect that no matter how much the British prided themselves on being unlike those barbaric Americans, the Imperial Experience of Africans and most Asians isn't going to be a particularly fun-time-happy-nostalgia-inducing one. And military conquest (of _independent_ countries, anyway)should be going out of style within 30 years of the development of nuclear weapons, by which time MAD should be well-established...

Also the USA profitably governing a hundred and fifty million *Nigerian as an overseas territory seems a bit of a stretch ;).

Did OK with a hundred and fifty million or so Latin Americans, but I take your point: eyes bigger than their stomach and all that, impossible to keep isolated from outside influence, it probably is a pain and a half by 2011...

Bruce
 
A few of questions...

1) Why isn't Scotland/Wales part of the RE in the same way that Ireland/England are?
2) Other than South China, which significant States aren't Democracies? (In this regard, I'm treating any state with the level of Democracy of OTL 1840s USA or 1840s Britain as a Democracy.)
3) Do any major states not have equal sufferage by gender?
4) By 2011, 8 Nuclear Powers? *USA, New England(?), Germany, Russia, Republic of China, Bharat, Japan(?) and the Restored Empire, right?
5) Does the Russian/Restored Empire border in Arabia go right through the Ghawar Oil Field? (the largest on the planet)
6) Of the other 7 Nuclear Powers, who gets along with *USA the best?
7) Rangoon, Burma looks like a cross-roads for a number of the powers, is it a hotbed for spies?
 
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But hasn't the Empire pulled out of literally everywhere by the 1940s and established all these new countries - hardly imperial rule.

Did OK with a hundred and fifty million or so Latin Americans, but I take your point: eyes bigger than their stomach and all that, impossible to keep isolated from outside influence, it probably is a pain and a half by 2011...

Ah but at the time of their Latin conquests it would have been rather less - the Great War and the North American war saw only 40 and 20 million brought under the yoke at a time, in places much closer to American logistical centres, and where there are considerable portions of the population white enough to be collaborators.

@interpoltomo: yeah I don't think that'd go well for the Americans at all in a densely populated and rugged country in an era of better small arms and with every anti-american power nearby.
 
@interpoltomo: yeah I don't think that'd go well for the Americans at all in a densely populated and rugged country in an era of better small arms and with every anti-american power nearby.

I was implying there wouldn't be any problems in Nigeria because there wouldn't be live nigerians.
 
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