English Canada/French Carolina: A Timeline

[Gabingston]

Really good chapter.
I'm glad this one has been going for so long when many others have died off. My project stalled and died. Even HeX seems to have moved on. I'd rather have this one continue. Very nice work!

I've abandoned some projects (my French Australia and French Canada projects both died, as did a Maps & Graphics project I'd worked on, although I've considered doing something like that again), and I nearly abandoned this one shortly after it started, but I started to really work on this one in the Spring of 2019 and have never stopped. I intend on taking this to the present day in one form or another.
Also, thanks for the compliment!

 

[PGSBHurricane]

Man, I'm getting a lot of material out of the Sino-Japanese War. There will probably be 2-3 more updates on the war, after which I'll get to more of the general events happening around the world in the Mid 20th Century. I'm thinking that, considering the point of time we're at, the amount of things left to cover and the work on my other TL (which you should totally check out if you haven't, BTW), EC/FC proper will probably last into 2023, unless I put my other TL on hold and solely work on this or cut this one short and make one giant summary of what happens between the 1950s and today. Either way, I'm gonna follow the timeline up with a Maps & Graphics Spinoff/Sequel, which will cover the world of EC/FC as of the 2020s, with some minor alterations from the timeline itself.

Well, it looks like you will be wrapping this TL up on a high note, and I have to give this credit for inspiring me to write about alternate colonization TLs.

 

[Gabingston]

Well, it looks like you will be wrapping this TL up on a high note, and I have to give this credit for inspiring me to right about alternate colonization TLs.

Thanks, and you have some very good TL's.

Spoiler

You spelled "write" as "right" in your post. Sorry to be a grammar nazi, but I couldn't not notice that.

 

[PGSBHurricane]

Thanks, and you have some very good TL's.

Spoiler

You spelled "write" as "right" in your post. Sorry to be a grammar nazi, but I couldn't not notice that.

Fixed.

 

[Gabingston]

Part 130: Sino-Japanese War Chapter 5: Urban Combat​

In late February of 1951, the Battle of Taipei officially commenced. Tens of thousands of Japanese troops stormed into the city, met in return by both Chinese troops and civilians fighting back. While other cities had been the scenes of combat during the war, no battle thus far had been this big. S**t was about to hit the fan, so let’s dive right into the s**tstorm and cover the Battle of Taipei…
As the Japanese entered the city from the hills, they launched bombardments on the city itself, to prevent the fortification of the buildings within. Despite that, parts of the city remained standing, and these areas were fortified. Even individual buildings were fortified, as both soldiers and civilians would hang out in the upper floors of the city’s structures with weapons, explosives, gas canisters and supplies. When Japanese soldiers would pass by one of these occupied buildings, the people on the higher floors would drop down either an explosive or chemical device, after which they would fire upon the Japanese troops. Not only was this costly for the Japanese, but this meant they’d have to fight block by block, raiding each building, room by room, to root out both Chinese troops and civilians. Having to do this for literally thousands of multi-story apartment buildings meant that tens of thousands of Japanese men died in these operations, as they’d enter a room and immediately get filled with bullets. Many civilians died as well, as the Japanese would immediately fill them with bullets if they didn’t shoot fast enough.
We’ll get back to what’s going on in Taipei later, but for now I’d like to make a detour up to the Chinese invasion sites on the Liaodong Peninsula just outside of Dalian. With the two landings having been successful, it was time for them to connect and encircle the city of Dalian, cutting it off from the rest of Qing Manchuria. The Chinese plan was for the two invasion forces to meet up in the middle, and then push for the city. The area in between the two forces on the Liaodong Peninsula was made up of a mixture of fields and wooded hills, with some villages and towns scattered around. Unlike in Taiwan, where the Japanese were met by the locals fighting like hell to defend their island, there was some pro-Nanjing sympathy within Manchuria, as many still viewed the Qing as a foreign, Manchu imposition over the Han people or otherwise wanted a united China. As a result, resistance from civilians wasn’t as stiff in Liaodong as it was in Taiwan, and the Chinese were able to move more easily. The two forces met up, thus cutting off Dalian from the rest of Manchuria. From here, the Chinese could siege Dalian, cutting off supplies and waiting for the city to starve. This wasn’t a perfect strategy, as supplies could still come in by sea (if they snuck by the Chinese navy patrolling the waters around the city), but it did make the city a quite unpleasant place to be. Despite that, the city held out for months, refusing to surrender.
With the siege lasting for months, the Chinese eventually said “screw it, we’re going in”, and broke into the city proper. Thus, the Siege of Dalian turned into the Battle of Dalian. As was typical of Mid 20th Century urban combat, the battle was extremely bloody. Scores of both Chinese and Qing/Japanese troops were either killed or injured, and that’s not to mention the city’s civilian population. After several weeks of intense combat, though, the Chinese took the city of Dalian. Whatever was left of the city was then turned into a base of operations for further operations to conquer the Liaodong Peninsula and eventually link up with their troops on the other Manchurian front.
Going back to Taiwan, the Battle of Taipei continued to drag on. As mentioned earlier, the battle was a grind, with progress having to be made on a block by block basis for the Japanese. However, things were starting to come together for the invaders. Much of the city by this point had been captured by the Japanese, and the morale of the Chinese defenders was starting to wane. It was now late June of 1951, four whole months after the battle had begun, and hundreds of thousands of casualties had piled up between Chinese military and civilians. The mayor of Taipei was still alive, though, and he would put out messages from his secret bunker urging the city to keep fighting. This served as an inspiration and morale boost for the city’s defenders. However, on June 28th, the Japanese found and captured him. Considering him a bargaining chip to leverage with the city he had governed, the Japanese stated that they’d release him if the city would officially capitulate. If not, then he’d continue to remain in custody of the Japanese army. The city refused to budge initially, but after several weeks, they finally acquiesced to the demands. Thus, after five months, Taipei had officially fallen.
Now, with the Chinese taking Dalian and the Japanese taking Taipei, each side had achieved a major victory. From here, I will just summarize the events throughout the remainder of the war, before getting on to the peace treaty in the next update. After taking Taipei, the Japanese were able to quickly take the rest of Northern Taiwan, conquering Taoyuan, Hsinchu and Toufen by the beginning of October 1951. At the same time, a second landing attempt was made in the South at Taimali, this time succeeding, and by the beginning of 1952 the Japanese had established a foothold in Southern Taiwan. In February of that year, Japan was able to take Hengchun, Taiwan’s southernmost town. They were also able to take the entirety of Taiwan’s West Coast by that point, leaving only the East Coast from Miaoli on south as Chinese controlled.
Once again cycling back from the Japanese invasion of Taiwan to the Chinese invasion of Liaodong, the capture of Dalian gave the Chinese a staging point to conquer the rest of the Liaodong Peninsula and eventually link up with their troops in the north, who were currently in a stalemate near Yingkou, about 200 kilometers north of Dalian. Most of the area was either flat agricultural land or rolling hills, which meant that a connection could be made rather quickly if things went right. Alternatively, they could go east to Dandong on the Korean border. While they considered the latter option for a bit, it was decided to head to Yingkou and unite the two Manchurian fronts.
The Qing and Japanese had figured that this was the plan of the Chinese, and thus sent troops in that direction. After advancing about 50 miles north of their previous position, the Chinese ran into the Qing and Japanese forces near the locale of Bayuquan, where another battle would begin. The battle would commence in August of 1951, right at the peak of the rainy summer season in Manchuria, meaning that the battle would be quite sloppy. It was also one of the most important battles in the entire war, as a Chinese victory would mean the linking of their two frontlines in Manchuria and could enable an advance towards the major Qing cities of Anshan and Shenyang, whereas a Qing/Japanese victory would mean that the Chinese momentum in the Manchurian front would be halted.
To sum it all up, the battle was split between the numerically inferior but technologically advanced Japanese and Qing on one side and the manpower-heavy but not quite up to par technologically Chinese on the other side. The Chinese could throw seemingly endless amounts of men at the Japanese and Qing, who could in turn shoot down scores of them. The battle started in August and lasted through late summer and early fall, ending in late October. In the end, though, the numerical advantage of the Chinese was able to overcome the technological prowess of Japan, and the Chinese were able to link up their two Manchurian frontlines into a united front. This wasn’t the end of the world for the Japanese and Qing, though, as they could still ship supplies through Korea and the still Qing-controlled port of Dandong, and they still controlled some previously Chinese cities in both Northern China (Chengde) and in Taiwan.
Speaking of Taiwan, it is time to return there once more, as I’ve still got more stuff to cover on that front. As mentioned earlier, by early 1952, Japan had occupied the majority of the island of Taiwan, with only the Southeastern part of the island remaining under Chinese control. Well, the Japanese were just about ready to finish it off and fully conquer Taiwan. Thus, after waiting out the rainy summer season, the Japanese high command launched a new offensive in the fall of 1952 aimed at taking the rest of Taiwan. The offensive began by taking Miaoli, which was done relatively quickly, followed by an advance to the outskirts of Taichung. Taichung was a major city on the island, so this had the potential to become another long, protracted battle like in Taipei. Rather than head directly into the city and fight for every city block, which could be very costly in terms of now very precious manpower and supplies, the Japanese instead decided to seize the port and surrounding countryside, thus cutting the city off from supplies.
The city had begun stockpiling before the Japanese arrived, but they’d only gathered enough to sustain themselves for a month or two. The Japanese arrived in early November, so just after New Year’s Day, they began to run short on food and munitions. Even with that, the citizenry of Taichung swore that they’d hold out for as long as possible. After two months of resistance with a lack of supplies, the residents of the city began to grow restless, as the rations were getting smaller and smaller and people began to grow hungry. Still, much of the city still supported holding out. Meanwhile, Japan began to conduct bombing runs on the city, destroying much of the city and lowering its morale further. Finally, in early April, Taichung raised the white flag and surrendered to Japan.
By this point, we had gotten to the spring of 1953, six full years after the war had begun in the spring of 1947. While both sides of the conflict had come in with a strong nationalistic fervor, paitence was beginning to wear thin. Millions of people had died in the war, and many more were wounded, not to mention the effects that air raids and rations had on the daily lives of the average person, especially in the major cities. Anti-war demonstrations had begun appearing around 1951, usually as small gatherings, but by 1953 thousands were marching for an end to the war, met with various reactions by the governments in Japan, Korea, Manchuria and China. It was also becoming clear to the leadership that the sides were roughly evenly matched, and that nothing was going to change, so even the political leadership became open to an armistice. During this time, fighting in Taiwan and Manchuria continued, with the death toll continuing to rise. The Japanese and Chinese leadership began to communicate with each other, discussing the possibility of a ceasefire. Eventually, the monarchs of each of these nations agreed to meet to discuss the war, and a possible end of hostilities.
On June 16th, 1953, the Emperors of Japan, Korea and both the Qing and Nanjing Emperors met on the Korean island of Jeju, discussing an armistice and the possibility of a peace treaty. After a few weeks of intense discussion, on July 9th, 1953, the two sides agreed to an armistice, to be effective the following day. Thus, on July 10th, 1953, all fighting on the ground, the seas and in the air ceased. However, this wasn’t the official end of the war, which will be the subject of my next update. This update is one of, if not the longest that I’ve put out thus far, but I’m finally getting to the end of this war. The peace treaty update should be out within this month at the very least, after which I will move on to other things, as well as possibly resuming work on my other TL. Until then, though, have a good day.

 

[Gabingston]

Part 131: Sino-Japanese War Chapter 6: Peace In The East​

After six years, the guns had finally fallen silent in the Sino-Japanese War. The war had turned out inconclusive, as the two sides were about evenly matched and neither could get the upper hand. Had the war taken place 20 years earlier, it would’ve been a Japanese victory due to their superior firepower and tactics, and had it taken place 20 years later, it would’ve been a Chinese victory, as they would’ve fully caught up to Japan by that point while also having a massive manpower advantage. However, it took place in the window of time where they were about equal, so a draw was the result. With the ceasefire in place, it was finally time to draw up a peace treaty that would bring an official end to the war.
Before any peace treaty was to be drafted, they’d first need to find a location to meet for the negotiations. Since the war was a draw, it was agreed that the peace treaty should be drafted in a neutral country rather than in one of the combatants. Several locations were considered, such as Manila in the British Philippines or Hawaii. Before either of those could happen, though, Russia offered to host and mediate the negotiations in Vladivostok, the largest city in the Russian Far East. Thus, in the Fall of 1953, delegates from China, Qing Manchuria, Korea and Japan met in Vladivostok to decide the future of the Far East…
The first thing that needed to be decided were any potential border changes. Each side had made some advances, with the Chinese taking much of Southern Manchuria and Japan taking the island of Taiwan. While the balance on the whole did slightly favor the Chinese, it wasn’t by a whole lot, so it was still fair game for negotiation. China first asked for all the territory they had taken during the war, but that was turned down. Japan wanted Taiwan, but knew that it was probably out of reach. In the final peace deal, the borders remained almost identical, with the only difference being the fate of the city of Dalian. Dalian was to become a city-state, the Independent City of Dalian, which Chinese, Manchurian and Japanese ships all had free access to. This was technically a loss for the Qing, as Dalian was one of their major ports, but since they could still access the city, it wasn’t completely intolerable.
What was more significant, however, were the diplomatic agreements reached between the Nanjing and Qing Emperors. Before the war, both sides had mutual claims on each other, viewing the other side as illegitimate. The big agreement reached in the Treaty of Vladivostok, though, was that both the Nanjing and Qing governments would abandon all claims to the other side’s territory and recognize each other as legitimate entities. Manchuria was no longer claimed by the Nanjing government, while the Qing no longer claimed the territories they once owned. In time, even the Han in Manchuria would come to see themselves as less Chinese and more Manchurian in their identity, while the rest of China would come to see Manchurians as a separate nation.
It had been six long and grueling years, but peace was finally restored in the Far East. While not a whole lot had changed on the map, East Asia wouldn’t be the same after such a dramatic conflict where millions perished and many more were either left injured or mentally scarred. I’ll eventually get back to East Asia in the future, but I’m gonna finally get to areas like Europe and The Americas. For one last thing, I will have a quick chart of the death toll of the conflict below.

Sino-Japanese War Death Toll​

• China: 2.5 Million Military and 4 Million Civilian (6.5 Million Total)
• Manchuria: 1 Million Military and 2 Million Civilian (3 Million Total)
• Japan: 1.5 Million Military and 250,000 Civilian (1.75 Million Total)
• Korea: 200,000 Military and 250,000 Civilian (550,000 Total)
• Total Death Toll: 11,800,000

I’ll see you next time, guys.

 

[A Random Man]

Nice chapter

 

[Gabingston]

Hello, readers. By this point in time, I’ve been working on EC/FC for nearly four years, and have covered a period of time stretching from the POD in 1628 all the way up into the middle of the 20th Century. It has truly been a wonderful journey with you all, and I already look fondly upon the memories of being up late at night plugging away on this project. With that said, I’ve got a few things to go over when it comes to the future of this TL…
First, I’ve got a bit of writer’s block right now. I just don’t know what I want to cover on my next update(s). The latter half of the 20th Century up to the present just seems like a rather boring time to write about. The period after the Second World War IOTL has been called The Long Peace, as there have been no wars between major industrialized countries since then and the world has become more interconnected and interdependent, whether that lasts is anyone’s question.
Now, there’s no reason for TTL’s world from 1945 to the present to resemble our own, but my perceptions of what is plausible for this world are obviously shaped by what happened in our own. As a result, something like, say, a continent-wide war in Europe after 1950 seems like a completely foreign concept to me, since there hasn’t been a continent-wide European war in our world since World War Two. With this in mind, I don’t know if I even want to bring the written timeline to the present day. With how many areas of the world I have to cover, it’d probably take at least another year at my current pace, maybe two, to reach the present day. I’ve thought of doing a few updates covering each region of the world, giving a summary on what happens between the Mid 20th Century and the present, so I could then get on to the Maps & Graphics adaptation, where I’ll fill in more of the lore for the latter half of the 20th Century and the first two decades of the 21st.
Speaking of lore, I’ll be honest with you guys, there are significant pieces of this timeline’s canon that I don’t particularly like, and would want to alter in a Maps & Graphics TL. For example, the Second Global War (1911-1916) really doesn’t set up well for the rest of the timeline. In the written timeline, TTL’s Central Powers (Prussia, Austro-Bavaria, Britain and The Ottomans, with a few smaller countries as well) score a clear and obvious victory over TTL’s Entente (France, Russia, Spain, the two major Italian states and most of the Balkans), even capturing Paris at the end of the war. However, a one-sided humiliation like this does not bode well for a peaceful European future. With France and Russia feeling bitter and vengeful, another war seems quite likely. A third war is certainly possible, but part of me really wants to change the outcome of the Second Global War (and possibly the first if I revisit it and take issue with it). I’d probably end up changing it to where, while still a Central Powers victory, the war would be much more closely fought, thus making the peace treaty less of a one-sided affair. It might be like the Congress of Vienna IOTL, which while still nerfing France from what it was under Napoleon, wasn’t entirely one-sided like the Treaty of Versailles after OTL’s WW! and set the foundation for a mostly peaceful Europe for a century to come. In the end, I might leave the question of whether Europe has another large-scale war ITTL to a vote, even if it would be an asspull (keyword: might, I’m still undecided on that one).
On the topic of revisions, I’ve thought of revising sizable sections of the map once I get to the Maps & Graphics sequel. Spoiler alert, the biggest change will be getting rid of the Danish and Swedish colonies in New Zealand. Sorry to the guy who suggested it, assuming he’s still reading it, but I don’t find it realistic enough to implement. Granted, my idea to replace it with a German New Zealand isn’t much more realistic (if New Zealand hadn’t been colonized by the British IOTL, it probably would’ve been the French or Dutch), but I’ve had this idea floating around my head for a while, and I want to work with it. In return, I will have the Kalmar Union colonize New Zealand in Union of The Three Crowns, my other timeline I started a few months ago, although that’s a while down the line. Other areas that would see changes would include Australia (namely restricting Portuguese Australia to just OTL’s Northern Territory and Kimberly) and South America (making Patagonia smaller and La Plata larger) and maybe even parts of Europe and Asia, but I’ll cross that bridge when I get there.
I’d like to hear your feedback on this post and hear some ideas from you guys as to where this timeline should go. I’ll get back to writing the timeline as soon as I get over writer’s block, and EC/FC will reach its conclusion in the near future. I’ll also work on my other timeline that I linked to in the previous paragraph, which I highly recommend checking out if you haven’t. I know I’ve done a lot of these writer’s posts lately, but this timeline is at a crossroads, and I’m not quite sure which path to take, so your feedback would be greatly appreciated. I’ll get a new update out hopefully within this month, but for now, I must bid you all adieu.

 

[Gabingston]

Part 132: The Bear Awakens​

Russia between the start of the Second Global War in 1911 and the 1932 elections, Russia was a complete and total mess. First they got their teeth kicked in by the Germans in the war itself, then they fell into their own highly destructive civil war and finally had an unstable beginning as a Republic. Now the 1932 elections had passed, and no party had a majority in the Council of the Republic. The two largest parties were the Revolutionary Republican Party, the left-wing, secularist party that was the most popular in major cities and the Russian Popular Party, a populist party that was strongest among the peasantry and in rural areas. Others included the Liberal Party, who were pro-Republic but more moderate than the RRP, the Conservatives, who were devoutly religious and held Monarchist sympathies and various parties representing ethnic minorities like Jews, Tatars and Kalmyks.
With the divided Council, the different parties and factions within Russian politics would have to bite the bullet and try to compromise. I already touched on this a bit in my last update on Russia, but many of the most radical elements of the early years of the Republic were toned down, such as the anti-clericalism of the RRP government from 1928-1932. However, the Republic still represented a large break with Russia’s past. For example, the capital was moved away from the old Tsarist capital of St. Petersburg. While there was initially discussion of moving the capital to somewhere in Siberia (likely Omsk or Obgorod), they decided instead to move it back to Moscow, which despite having been the old Muscovite capital held some significance to the Republic (go back to Part 80 for a refresher). Even with the capital staying in Europe, developing Siberia was a major priority for the Republic. State-owned and public-private enterprises conducted resource exploration in the vast Siberian steppe, taiga and tundra, finding abundant deposits of minerals and fossil fuels. New infrastructure like railways, roads and airstrips were built into the wilderness to access these deposits, and new towns were established to house the workers and their families. While most of the Russian population would remain concentrated west of the Urals in Europe, many did pack up and move out to Siberia, which would grow considerably in population over the middle of the 20th Century. Due to the increasing urbanization and industrialization, Russia began to undergo the demographic transition, with the Fertility Rate declining by 50% between 1930 and 1960. Due to the high starting point, though, the average Russian woman was still having three kids in 1960, lower in the cities and higher in the countryside. This would mean that the country would experience population growth throughout the remainder of the 20th Century.
After Russia sorted out her internal issues, Russia began to throw her weight around on the geopolitical stage once again. After Russia became more hospitable towards the Orthodox Church, the Slavic Orthodox countries in Eastern Europe began to drift into the Russian sphere of influence. Ukraine, for example, had elected for a Republican form of government after gaining independence, and upon the Republican victory in the civil war, became more pro-Russian (remember, there is no Holodomor to make Ukrainians permanently resentful of Russia). Russia, in turn, decided to abandon the more revanchist aims of reconquering Ukraine (unlike IOTL) and instead went for incorporating the country into their economic and political sphere. A formal treaty to establish economic and political cooperation was signed in the Ukrainian city of Odessa. Thus, the Odessa Pact was born. Over the next decade or so, this was expanded to other Orthodox European countries like Dacia, Bulgaria, Greece and Illyria. Russia still wanted more of Europe to fall into their sphere of influence (namely Poland, Baltia and Estonia), but that would entail a direct conflict with the Germans, something Russia was not ready for, so they would bite their tongue for the time being. Russia also expanded her diplomatic reach in Asia, influencing her former territory of Turkestan and hosting the peace treaty for the Sino-Japanese War. While the Russians didn’t have the reach they’d had in the Czarist times, they were slowly but surely building up their own sphere of influence and returning to great power status.
One of the big beneficiaries of the Russian Republic were Russia’s Jews. They had been heavily persecuted during the Czarist times, being restricted to the Pale of Settlement in the far west of the empire and often being the targets of pogroms. Many Jews within the Russian Empire had emigrated, with the largest recipient being the Commonwealth of America, which now had the world’s largest Jewish population. However, the new republic was much friendlier to Russia’s Jews. The Pale of Settlement was abolished (although most of it now lay in the independent Poland, Ukraine and Baltia) and full freedom of religion was established, which allowed Jews much more breathing room. With the restrictions on settlement gone, Jews began to move out of the former pale to destinations across the country, setting up their own enclaves within major cities as far away as Vladivostok. With them being allowed to run for political office, Jewish politicians began to be elected to the Council of the Republic, with some becoming quite high-profile. What party Jews voted for largely depended on their level of religiosity, Secular and Reform Jews were a solid RRP bloc, while Orthodox Jews largely stuck to their own parties and candidates, being numerous enough to get a few into the council.
After a rocky two decades in the 1910s and 1920s, things were starting to improve in Russia. Things were getting done, the standard of living was beginning to rise and Russia’s geopolitical influence was beginning to grow again. After a lengthy slumber, the bear was awakening and ready to throw its weight around. There will be more to get to with Russia, but that’ll be a story for another day.

 

[Mister Mister]

What happens in Florida?

 

[Gabingston]

I've put this off long enough, here's a poll that will have a huge impact on the future of this timeline:
Will there be a Third Global War?

Will there be Third Global War? - Online Poll - StrawPoll

What's your opinion? Vote now: Yes, No, but there will be some more regional conflicts between great powers, No, there will be a general peace between the great powers....

strawpoll.com

 

[PGSBHurricane]

Voted yes. So far things have been going a little too smoothly among most of the major powers.

 

[A Random Man]

Voted for no Third Global War, but filled with minor conflicts brewing all throughout the world.

 

[Gabingston]

From the looks of it so far, it seems as though there won't be a Third Global War. However, there will be regional Great Power conflicts throughout the world during the 20th Century. At the present moment, I'd say that the Great Powers are as follows, in no particular order:

• Greater British Empire
• France
• Prussia/Austro-Bavaria
• Russia
• Japan
• China

I'll add in some Secondary Powers for that matter, also in no particular order:

• Greater Spanish Empire
• Brazil/Portugal
• Hindustan
• Ottomans
• South Africa
• Netherlands

So, between these great powers, which conflicts do you guys find to be the most likely? I've already had a Sino-Japanese War, the Hindustani War of Independence, the Great Balkan War and have planned on having a civil war in South Africa, but there are sure to be more coming down the pipe. Something happening in Europe looks plausible, and while it won't become a Third Global War, having a short war here or there a la the Franco-Prussian War or Crimean War IOTL would be an option. I could delve deeper into this, but I've got to get ready for work, so I can't do so right now.

 

[ClockworkDawn]

I feel like we could see the Ottomans position themselves as an oil supplying neutral, assuming they have and can continue to hold on to Arabia. Might see the beginnings of a block of their own. if there are any Anti-Russian wars however, I'd expect them to be involved after a period of modernization.

Personally I wish every timeline was an Ottoman wank, but a stronger Ottoman empire would be definitely interesting.

 

[Gabingston]

I feel like we could see the Ottomans position themselves as an oil supplying neutral, assuming they have and can continue to hold on to Arabia. Might see the beginnings of a block of their own. if there are any Anti-Russian wars however, I'd expect them to be involved after a period of modernization.

Personally I wish every timeline was an Ottoman wank, but a stronger Ottoman empire would be definitely interesting.

The Ottomans lost Mesopotamia and Kurdistan in the Great Balkan War, so most of their oil is gone right there. They do still hold Kuwait, though, so they could still export some oil. Still, The Ottoman Empire was so weakened by the war that even their status as a secondary power is questionable at this point. This is the present situation in the Middle East, The Ottomans are in dark green.

 

[ClockworkDawn]

The Ottomans lost Mesopotamia and Kurdistan in the Great Balkan War, so most of their oil is gone right there. They do still hold Kuwait, though, so they could still export some oil. Still, The Ottoman Empire was so weakened by the war that even their status as a secondary power is questionable at this point. This is the present situation in the Middle East, The Ottomans are in dark green.
View attachment 765557

Thanks for refreshing my memory. Honestly, a further collapse of Turkish authority outside of Anatolia seems likely, given the state of the Empire. Perhaps this collapse, and the subsequent rush by great powers to secure influence could be the calalyst for further conflict.

 

[ClockworkDawn]

Expanding on that, a Turkish civil war would actually be a neat conflict to observe. Nationalists, republicans, militarists, regional separatists... lots of potential factions for various nations to prop up.

 

[Gabingston]

I've officially opened the planning thread for a future Maps & Graphics adaptation of this timeline. I'll post some ideas I have for the Maps & Graphics TL soon. Just letting you all know that this thread is here.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/ec-fc-maps-graphics-planning-thread.531846/

 

[Gabingston]

Thanks for refreshing my memory. Honestly, a further collapse of Turkish authority outside of Anatolia seems likely, given the state of the Empire. Perhaps this collapse, and the subsequent rush by great powers to secure influence could be the calalyst for further conflict.

Expanding on that, a Turkish civil war would actually be a neat conflict to observe. Nationalists, republicans, militarists, regional separatists... lots of potential factions for various nations to prop up.

I was thinking of doing that, but then I looked at my previous Ottoman update, and I had said there that the Ottomans stabilized their situation after the war. That sucks, as the fall of the Ottomans could've made a good update, but I'm hesitant to retcon it.