Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun

Its going to be a pretty interesting matchup, and while Japan seems very eager for war they shouldn't underestimate Spain either. They didn't establish a reputation for the pre-eminent global empire of the early modern period for nothing.

That being said, Japan seems like the most likely victor in this conflict, given the factors of proximity and also that Spain is also distracted with the 30 Years War, or whatever the equivalent is at this point of time. However, it has been a while since Japan has fought an actual war - all the old veterans of the Sengoku period are old men and most of the Samurai of this period have grown up in times of relative peace, nor has Japan fought a 1st rate European opponent like Spain in an open conflict before. As I said, Japan will likely win, but they'll probably also learn some hard lessons of their own about European warfare - cracking the tercio is not an easy thing by any means, and it would force them to make some reforms to the way they organize their forces. Most of their deaths are undoubtedly going to come from disease - the Phillippines are a very foreign environment that the Japanese aren't used to.

Other cool ideas for the future - Nobutomo's opposition to Spanish interests might also provide the impetus to organize settlements on the West Coast of America - to provide forward bases to strike at the annual silver subsidies from Mexico that the Spanish Philippines depend upon. Or if the Japanese manage to successfully conquer Luzon at the very least, how they're going to deal with the vast religious panorama, and on a more fun note, how long it will be before we see native Filipino samurai (suddenly getting an image of Manny Pacquiao wearing samurai gear).
 
Seeing the Japanese build their army against the Spanish is very good, considering that the Philippines is a good prize. It may cut off China's economy from Spanish silver which may be catastrophic though. I think we'd get a period of Chinese instability if Japan wins.

Considering Zheng Zhilong is helping Japan it'd be really fun if one of his sons expands Japan's control of Beiritou considering otl koxinga controlled southern Beiritou (it does make sense for the Japanese to expand their control down the coasts and plains of Beiritou before fully controlling the mountains).

Also considering the amount of Chinese ppl in Beiritou would there be a bunch of Japanese ppl with single name surnames (like Lee, Zheng, Chan, Lum) from their Chinese ancestry?
I didn't consider the effect on the silver trade just the war would have, not even the potential outcome. I'll keep it in mind.

Regarding your last point, yes but very very few. People like Zheng Zhilong are big exceptions to the reality that almost all Han Chinese in Bireitou were farmers and fishermen in contrast to the more samurai and urban townsfolk-heavy Japanese population, and that trend will probably last throughout the century. This makes the Han Chinese the bottom labor class in the long run, whereas there's significantly more parity between the Japanese and Bireitoan aborigines (obviously the Japanese are still on top). Examples will emerge but the class divide and most Japanese emigrants being men make them rare cases. If anything, there's greater admixture between Japanese and aborigines, including many cases of daughters from samurai families marrying high-ranking tribesmen.
Hopefully this is helpful :)
Absolutely, I honestly was first confused at how tercios functioned on ships.
Its going to be a pretty interesting matchup, and while Japan seems very eager for war they shouldn't underestimate Spain either. They didn't establish a reputation for the pre-eminent global empire of the early modern period for nothing.

That being said, Japan seems like the most likely victor in this conflict, given the factors of proximity and also that Spain is also distracted with the 30 Years War, or whatever the equivalent is at this point of time. However, it has been a while since Japan has fought an actual war - all the old veterans of the Sengoku period are old men and most of the Samurai of this period have grown up in times of relative peace, nor has Japan fought a 1st rate European opponent like Spain in an open conflict before. As I said, Japan will likely win, but they'll probably also learn some hard lessons of their own about European warfare - cracking the tercio is not an easy thing by any means, and it would force them to make some reforms to the way they organize their forces. Most of their deaths are undoubtedly going to come from disease - the Phillippines are a very foreign environment that the Japanese aren't used to.

Other cool ideas for the future - Nobutomo's opposition to Spanish interests might also provide the impetus to organize settlements on the West Coast of America - to provide forward bases to strike at the annual silver subsidies from Mexico that the Spanish Philippines depend upon. Or if the Japanese manage to successfully conquer Luzon at the very least, how they're going to deal with the vast religious panorama, and on a more fun note, how long it will be before we see native Filipino samurai (suddenly getting an image of Manny Pacquiao wearing samurai gear).
True, no one is really around anymore that actually participated in a real war. The Biretou samurai elite are sorta of an exception in that they adapted to the climate and had to alter their fighting style in their frequent skirmishes, becoming nimble heavy infantry swinging a sword in one hand and firing a bajouzutsu in another while also knowledgeable in the usage of pretty much every weapon in existence including artillery pieces. Only problem is there aren't that many of them and even on the island, they rely on mercenaries and auxiliaries.

On the main islands, the Japanese have made more military technological progress than OTL, especially in its navy, but we shall see, we shall see...
 
Regarding your last point, yes but very very few. People like Zheng Zhilong are big exceptions to the reality that almost all Han Chinese in Bireitou were farmers and fishermen in contrast to the more samurai and urban townsfolk-heavy Japanese population, and that trend will probably last throughout the century. This makes the Han Chinese the bottom labor class in the long run, whereas there's significantly more parity between the Japanese and Bireitoan aborigines (obviously the Japanese are still on top). Examples will emerge but the class divide and most Japanese emigrants being men make them rare cases. If anything, there's greater admixture between Japanese and aborigines, including many cases of daughters from samurai families marrying high-ranking tribesmen.
Yeah, but it some Chinese families are bound to become important merchants around SEA so I'd think some would become integrated into Japanese society as they mix together. Hmm how'd the tribesmen assimilate? Would they receive Japanese names or have katakana or kanji translations of their names?
True, no one is really around anymore that actually participated in a real war. The Biretou samurai elite are sorta of an exception in that they adapted to the climate and had to alter their fighting style in their frequent skirmishes, becoming nimble heavy infantry swinging a sword in one hand and firing a bajouzutsu in another while also knowledgeable in the usage of pretty much every weapon in existence including artillery pieces. Only problem is there aren't that many of them and even on the island, they rely on mercenaries and auxiliaries.
Prob the first few attacks would be a disaster with the Beiritoans being the least fucked over, then the second batch of armies wipe the Spanish off the Philippines or something as the Japanese gain experience. The navy should be less fucked over but should still be hurt.
 
Yeah, but it some Chinese families are bound to become important merchants around SEA so I'd think some would become integrated into Japanese society as they mix together. Hmm how'd the tribesmen assimilate? Would they receive Japanese names or have katakana or kanji translations of their names?

Prob the first few attacks would be a disaster with the Beiritoans being the least fucked over, then the second batch of armies wipe the Spanish off the Philippines or something as the Japanese gain experience. The navy should be less fucked over but should still be hurt.
The important merchants obviously would see intermarriage but as of now the vast majority of Chinese settlers will not. As for the indigenous tribes, it will vary depending on geographical location and tribal affiliation. While tribes in the immediate vicinity of Iriebashi or those that were subjugated in the north will assimilate more and will more commonly have Japanese names, katakana translations would be predominant in the Kingdom of Tatuturo, which at this point is a de facto vassal but a de jure allied kingdom.
 
I'm glad the Dutch will support Japan against Iberia as well with the Sultanate and I hope they meet the Ottomans since their influence in Ache would introduce Japan to the Islam world.
 
Random thought occurs that if some Japanese converted to Islam, kimonos for women already meet a lot of the requirements when it comes to how women dress in Islam, all they’d need to do is add headscarves and/or face coverings.
Doesn't their buddhist nun attire fully qualify already as is?
 
I'm glad the Dutch will support Japan against Iberia as well with the Sultanate and I hope they meet the Ottomans since their influence in Ache would introduce Japan to the Islam world.
Tbh ITTL Chinese and Japanese merchants maintaining a presence in places like Hormuz, Zanzibar, and Cairo within a couple decades would not be the most unrealistic thing in the world.
 
Tbh ITTL Chinese and Japanese merchants maintaining a presence in places like Hormuz, Zanzibar, and Cairo within a couple decades would not be the most unrealistic thing in the world.
From Cairo it's just a short hop to Europe. Imagine Japanese and Chinese quarters in cities like Constantinople and Japanese Catholics making pilgrimages to Rome (and Jerusalem, for that matter).
 
From Cairo it's just a short hop to Europe. Imagine Japanese and Chinese quarters in cities like Constantinople and Japanese Catholics making pilgrimages to Rome (and Jerusalem, for that matter).
Ooh Japanese in Europe is fun especially with the nascent ottoman empire coming about. I could see Venice also having a Japanese quarter, and a few Japanese merchant families settling in Europe and the ME Which would be fun. I'd think informal Chinese quarters would be part of the Japanese quarter.
 
Ooh Japanese in Europe is fun especially with the nascent ottoman empire coming about. I could see Venice also having a Japanese quarter, and a few Japanese merchant families settling in Europe and the ME Which would be fun. I'd think informal Chinese quarters would be part of the Japanese quarter.
I was trying to think of other cities than Constantinople that would have Japanese and Chinese quarters, so thanks for answering it for me. Genoa would be another city that could have an East Asian quarter.
 
I’m wondering if Japanese & Chinese ambassadors would be continuously sent between Asia and Europe. I’m wondering if certain high-ranking officials, like a Prince or even a Daimyo could visit Europe
 
I’m wondering if Japanese & Chinese ambassadors would be continuously sent between Asia and Europe. I’m wondering if certain high-ranking officials, like a Prince or even a Daimyo could visit Europe
Considering the ongoing conflict between Spain and the French, the Dutch and the English, some sort of alliance would work well to strike at Spain's colonies and deprive them of their colonial resources.
 
I’m wondering if Japanese & Chinese ambassadors would be continuously sent between Asia and Europe. I’m wondering if certain high-ranking officials, like a Prince or even a Daimyo could visit Europe
The process started in the 1620s in Asia for Japan. The Keicho embassy of Hasekura Tsunenaga was butterflied away ITTL because Azuchi has a very centralized grip on foreign policy and Saito Yoshioki's faction wasn't particularly interested in diplomatic expansionism so ITTL they rejected and forbade Date Masamune's Keicho embassy idea, hence why there haven't been diplomatic missions directly to Europe since the Tensho embassy.
 
The process started in the 1620s in Asia for Japan. The Keicho embassy of Hasekura Tsunenaga was butterflied away ITTL because Azuchi has a very centralized grip on foreign policy and Saito Yoshioki's faction wasn't particularly interested in diplomatic expansionism so ITTL they rejected and forbade Date Masamune's Keicho embassy idea, hence why there haven't been diplomatic missions directly to Europe since the Tensho embassy.
Would we have embassies for the Dutch/English for Japan and vice versa ittl tho?

At least ittl the ppl of Europe have to deal with a group of ppl that are their equals.
 
Would we have embassies for the Dutch/English for Japan and vice versa ittl tho?

At least ittl the ppl of Europe have to deal with a group of ppl that are their equals.
Honestly, a TL where Europe (or specifically Spain, UK, France, Netherlands and Portugal) encounter some resistance in Asia in the 1500-1900s may be beneficial for the world at large as Europe won't be able to dominate so lopsidedly, leading to a genuinely multi-polar world; which - let's face it - is the wet dream of most alternate historians.

Don't get me wrong, Europe will still reach unprecedented heights in terms of wealth and technology simply due to the simple fact that they stumbled into the gold chest that is the Americas. However, in a set-up where there are actual players of the game in Asia, Europe won't be able to convert that advantage to the full-on dominance of the world that we witnessed in the 19th century. ITTL the great divergence may not reach the drastic levels it reached IOTL, with China and India in particular being able to hold against it through sheer numbers of people inhabiting those lands (this worked for them up to the 1800s roughly after which they fell off) and with smaller Asian nations (specifically Japan) able to adapt Western models to their own advantage.

Sorry, just felt like rambling for a moment :D
 
Chapter 35: Iberian-Japanese War Part II - The Spanish Response

Chapter 35: Iberian-Japanese War Part II - The Spanish Response


Within days of Nobutomo’s moves, reports flowed into Manila of certain Japanese ships traveling to Batavia and Mindanao, followed by letters from San Salvador “unusual movements” at Momoyama Castle. This was immediately followed by confirmation of troop movements southwards from Iriebashi, all but indicating likely war with Japan. De Tabora, knowing the immense threat Japan would pose towards Iberian presence in the region due to their size, proximity, and technological parity, would send messengers to both Madrid and Mexico City, the capital of New Spain, in order to receive reinforcements and fully commit Portugal and its possessions to the war effort for coordination purposes. While historically the Spanish Philippines and the Portuguese East Indies rarely collaborated, de Tabora sought to overcome bureaucratic barriers and fight the common enemy. The governor general also successfully enlisted the participation of the Tidore sultanate, a long-time Spanish ally, and even sent envoys to Ayutthaya hoping to have Siam join the war to make up for Iberian manpower deficiencies in the region. However, Siam was already enmeshed in a years-long war with Cambodia and the Honjo clan with the backing of the Nguyen lords and therefore could not join the war.

In the meantime, de Tabora alerted Portuguese outposts in Macau, Malacca, and Goa of the impending war including the likelihood of a Dutch-Japanese alliance, putting Portuguese possessions in direct danger. He also mobilized Spanish companies and enlisted scores of Filipino auxiliary troops in and around Manila, sending men to both San Salvador and Cagayan in northern Luzon to shore up the garrisons there. Finally, he expelled all Japanese from Manila, including the Nihonmachi Dilao enclave, to extinguish any chance of an attack from within. Any Dilao residents who protested his expulsion decree were killed, marking the end of the Nihonmachi of Manila.

Although it would take many months, word of the impending Spanish-Japanese conflict would eventually arrive in Madrid, where its seriousness was immediately understood. King Philip III/IV of Portugal and Spain, was eager to not only defeat Japan but reassert Iberian power in the East. Court favorite and minister Gaspar de Guzman, better known as the Count-Duke of Olivares, saw something else aside from the aforementioned objectives in the upcoming conflict. Back in 1624, Olivares had proposed the Union of Arms which would’ve mandated military contribution quotas from each of the constituent realms of the Spanish Crown to even out the burden Castile suffered from bearing the financial and resource costs of Spanish military campaigns in Europe. However, he faced strong opposition, particularly from Catalonia and Portugal, and thus it was never implemented. Portugal especially cared little for supporting the wars of a crown demonstrating negligence in defending their own overseas possessions from the Dutch. Now, Olivares would reintroduce this concept in this new context with the promise of Spanish resources going towards retaking lost Portuguese possessions in the East Indies and firmly defending those under threat. This time, he succeeded, only having to placate Catalan nobles with titles and privileges, and the Union of Arms became reality. This new arrangement would not only affect the Iberian-Japanese conflict but also Spain’s ongoing conflict against the Dutch in the Low Countries.​

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Sketch of the Count-Duke of Olivares​

Under the advice of Olivares, King Philip would amass a fleet of 5,000 men and 25 ships, including 17 galleons, led by Antonio de Oquendo, Admiral-General of the Ocean Fleet and a talented nava commander, destined to the East Indies as well as plenty of gold to employ mercenaries. While an impressive and unprecedented effort considering the distance, it would take some time before it would arrive in the region. Fortunately, reinforcements consisting of a fleet of 8 galleons and 7 smaller ships would also come from New Spain. However, even this fleet would not arrive until February 1632, and by then the first engagements of the war occurred at Fort San Salvador, its garrison manned by Juan de Alcarazo.​

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Portrait of Antonio de Oquendo​

The 300-strong Spanish garrison at San Salvador was reinforced by 100 Filipino auxiliaries, 50 Chinese levies from villages within the Spanish sphere of influence, and 50 indigenous allies as well as 10 ships within its harbor. They would be facing an army of nearly 7,000 as well as the entire Iriebashi fleet, led by Itou Sukenori (伊東祐慶). Blood was about to be shed.​
 
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