What if Prussia manages to stay indendant and isolated from the German states? If your POD is rather late, could Prussia leaves the North German Confederation? Would the other German states (excluding Austria and Prussia) unite under one state? If not, with the situation staying the same long enough, would Austria-Hungary absorb them? Or would Prussia be able to absorb them without creating a new state or implementing new laws that would decentralize Prussia? How would this affect the rest of the decades to come and a possible Great War? What would happen to Prussia and other German states from these events?
Result of Germany not unifying?
- Thread starter Zarkar
- Start date
If we go with that, would it influence any important events that happened before 1860 at least?
The fear was that a Saxony-by-Rhine state would be overly Francophile. So maybe it elects an Orleanist King in 1830 and Austria/Prussia March in to restore order. They could march on Brussels while they are at it precipitating a war with France.
Or 1840 ish the French attempt a customs union with the Rhineland state precipitating a diplomatic crisis it war.
Or 1840 ish the French attempt a customs union with the Rhineland state precipitating a diplomatic crisis it war.
Deleted member 109224
There will probably be some unification of German States, but it need not be OTL's Germany or a Germany in which most Germans are a part of.
Bavaria inheriting Baden in the early 19th Century could be the basis of a Kleindeutscheland that excludes Austria and Prussia and perhaps even Hanover.
A Wettin Kingdom of Rhineland, Westphalia, and Luxembourg would likely mean Prussia isn't all that interesting in expanding much, with the possible exception of Schleswig-Holstein. It would also likely mean a liberal Kingdom which wouldn't have much issue come 1848.
Either the Bavarian or Saxo-Rhenish option would probably be buddy buddy with France.
There's also the prospect of the Dutch getting the North Rhineland at Westphalia (which they tried for OTL), resulting in another country that would be opposed to German unification.
France will remain top dog on the continent.
Without being stomped by Prussia, Austria may not lose Venice or feel a need to be pushed into an Ausgleich.
Bavaria inheriting Baden in the early 19th Century could be the basis of a Kleindeutscheland that excludes Austria and Prussia and perhaps even Hanover.
A Wettin Kingdom of Rhineland, Westphalia, and Luxembourg would likely mean Prussia isn't all that interesting in expanding much, with the possible exception of Schleswig-Holstein. It would also likely mean a liberal Kingdom which wouldn't have much issue come 1848.
Either the Bavarian or Saxo-Rhenish option would probably be buddy buddy with France.
There's also the prospect of the Dutch getting the North Rhineland at Westphalia (which they tried for OTL), resulting in another country that would be opposed to German unification.
France will remain top dog on the continent.
Without being stomped by Prussia, Austria may not lose Venice or feel a need to be pushed into an Ausgleich.
According to medieval models, Germany is not united today... Technically the kingdom of Germany was united as early as 1000 CE, so much of this is mute.
maybe a split Germany?
A Protestant Prussia-Westphalia-Saxony
and a Catholic Bavaria-Rhineland-Swabia?
also what would we call that southern german state anyway?
A Protestant Prussia-Westphalia-Saxony
and a Catholic Bavaria-Rhineland-Swabia?
also what would we call that southern german state anyway?
Wasn't Prussia (directed by Bismarck) sort of the driving force behind the unification? I can't see them pulling out (unless maybe Bismarck dies unexpectedly). But if unification doesn't happen it changes things enormously. The "problem" of a unified Germany was a major factor in shaping European history for almost 100 years.
Bytor
Monthly Donor
The lands that Prussia got from the Electorate of Saxony because of the Vienna Congress was a significant part of it's industrial capability. That plus Silesia is what made Prussia the powerhouse that it was. Jülich-Cleves-Berg (which were Prussian possessions before Napoleon already) were just icing on the cake, so to speak.
Lusitania
Donor
My favorite idea would be for Prussia to be denied the Rhineland pre-napoleon lands at Congress of Vienna but as compromise one of the other Prussian prince becomes king of the country. Over the next few decades it develops its own identify and forms an alliance with other western German states to thwart both Austrian and Prussian attempts to control the German states. From 1850-1870 they form an United Germany state independent of both Austria and Prussia to the East.
Not really? The people of Germany wanted unification but it took them and the active paritionpation of Prussia in order to get the heads of the other German states to agree to it, if Prussia isn't actively winning wars to move the proses along then there is no German unification.
One way could be the sucses of the first french empire, no French nation would like a unified Germany and a strong France could keep it that way.
Bytor
Monthly Donor
It wouldn't be Saxony getting Silesia. Prussia got part of the Electorate because the Electorate was a supporter of Napoleon and this was punishment. If anybody got Silesia with would probably be Austria getting all of it instead of only a bit of it.
Keep in mind, however, that Castlereagh and Metternich were adhering quite closely to a *balance* between the Great Powers when they architected the Congress agreements which was why in 90% of the cases the Congress chose to simply revert the borders back to pre-Napoleon. So Austria getting all of Silesia's coal fields and industrial power doesn't really track with that balance (though Metternich would have loved it) which was why it got given to Prussia, the (arguably at that time) least great of the Great Powers.
Perhaps Napoleon has a stroke and dies or becomes unfit to govern in c. 1808? Whoever becomes the dominant personality in France is less ambitious than Napoleon and sees where things could head and basically agrees on keeping the current status quo, resulting in unification of Germany based on the Rheinbund?
Well the problem whith that is that austrea had been trying for that for centerys at this point, had failed in uniting Germany by this point, manly because Hungary wasn't considerd Germany and few nationalist wanted it in any new Germany but no Hamburg ruler would give it up, unlike the Prussians who had given up mader parts of Poland for more German taratory. Combine whith the fact austrea fought for fendization in 1866 and im not shure germany could have been united under austrea, at lest not after the 30 years war.