Can't speak for anyone else but I'd long penciled in Pershing as POTUS in 1920 as a Democrat. Him not running that early changes the calculus of who the next Democratic President is. So, here's a list of contenders in no particular order, and feel free to add any.

1 - James Phelan (Senator, CA). This update calls him "the central protagonists of the Yellow Peril Politics" in the back part of the 1910s which would imply that he's maybe Senate Majority/Minority Leader, a good springboard for a Presidential run. Hopefully not, as while he's fairly progressive he's super racist, even by the low standards of the early 20th Century. But it looks like Sinophobia is here to stay out west either way :(
2 - Robert La Follette (Senator, WI). We've discussed him a fair amount. I think 1920 is too soon for Bobby and he runs in 1924 but him running and winning as a Democrat in 1920 isn't a shocker either.
3 - David Walsh (Governor, MA). Elected governor in 1914, first Democrat to lead the Bay State in decades.
4 - James Gerard (Governor, NY). By default ITTL the Governor of NY is always a contender for the Presidency. Sorry @DanMcCollum
5 - James M. Cox (Governor, OH). Can essentially group him, Gerard, and Walsh together. All three were elected in 1914, all three are big-state Democratic governors.
6 - John Kern (Senate Majority Leader, IN). Seems to like the Senate, plus he's got an OTL death date in 1917 coming up and our author seems to stick with those more often than not. But still, he's expressed interest in the big job before.
7 - Champ Clark (Speaker of the House, MO). My favorite for the spot. Gotta love a guy who can't stand WJB. He's got an OTL death date too of March 1921, which would be morbidly hilarious as it is two days before 1921's Inauguration Day. On a more serious note, he ran for President OTL so he's got the interest, and he's a mover and a shaker. He also apparently hated Canada, so having the Orange Crush freak out if he wins the Presidency and doesn't die could be funny.
8 - George Turner (Senator, WA). I dunno, feels like we're at the bottom of the barrel, but he's on Senate Foreign Relations and he was at Long Branch so he's sorta important.
9 - William Randolph Hearst (Former POTUS, Governor of NY). The Liberal tears would rule, but this has sadly been ruled out already by the author. Would certainly fit the "Hearst as Trump" analogy that the author has pushed forward on several occasions.
10- Reggie Belknap (Admiral at Hilton Head). No idea about his ideology or party loyalty. Can also sub in William Rodgers, also an admiral at Hilton Head, in this spot, or even Austin Knight.
Clark/Belknap 1920. Bonus points if Clark still kicks it just before the inauguration, spawning all manner of nutty conspiracy theories about how the Canucks assassinated him because he was planning on invading while Britain was distracted in Ireland /India.

Belknap/Pershing 1924. Having two presumably popular and recently-retired senior officers on the same ticket might make some people rather twitchy about military coups, however.
 
You know, I'm actually kind of curious.
What is the complete makeup and number of American and Confederate troops, .... or just the army sizes at the moment.
 
So regarding the population of Continental Spain in 1915, in OTL it was 19 770 000 in 1910 compared to a total of 26 153 670 in TTL 1910 (which includes Cuba, Puerto Rico and Santo Domingo). For those three islands in 1910 OTL there populations were as follows, for Puerto Rico 1 118 012, for Santo Domingo I couldn't find a 1910 population but it is given as 894 000 from a 1920 census, and Cuba has a population of 2 048 980 in 1907 OTL.

I'll guess SD has a population of around 800 000, and cuba saw an average growth rate of 2.9% from 1907 to 1919 OTL with a population increase from 2.048 million to 2.889 million, which equals 2 232 461 in 1910. This gives Spain plus the three islands a total of 19 770 000 + 800 000 + 2 232 461 + 1 118 012 = 23 920 473 in 1910 OTL. This is about 2 233 197 people, or 9,33% lower than TTL, and results in a peninsular Spanish population of 19 770 000*(1+0.0933)= 21 614 541 people.

Spain grew by 660 000 from 19.7 million to 20.4 million OTL from 1910 to 1915, a 3,33% overall increase, or about 0,66% per annum. In TTL the increase from 1900 to 1910 was 8,1% relative to 6,75% OTL which is 20% above OTL. An increase in total of 4% could thus result, getting a population of 21 614 541*1,04 = 22 479 123 people in European Spain by 1915.
 
What's William English Walling up to? He might have been mentioned before but having him as a post-war dissident in an era of chaos I think he'd be good. He could represent a re-surgent workers movement in the South.
 
One question about TTL's march to the sea vs. the OTL Civil War march to the sea.

In the OTL March to the Sea, Sherman lived off the land and as far as I can tell did not have anything close to secure supply lines until reaching US lines after the double march north through North Carolina into Virginia. The other half of that is that if willing to go by road, Confederate Troops probably *could* have completely cut him off from the Union lines in Atlanta or elsewhere once he passed through
iTTL 1915 , OTOH, the supply needs are much greater with WWI level of need for Supply. Does this mean that the March to the Sea has to defend the *entire* Salient with the concern that the Confederates will swing back through Atlanta after the forces have passed through and cut them off? Does the USA (once it gets to Atlanta) have enough supplies to get to Savannah even with cut off supply lines?
 
There may be a massive repair and expansion of rail and road lines to handle the union supplies. One benefit may be the amount of labor liberated by the union advance.
 
You know, I'm actually kind of curious.
What is the complete makeup and number of American and Confederate troops, .... or just the army sizes at the moment.
No clue, and I wouldn’t even know how to begin trying to calculate that
@KingSweden24


Have you ever heard of this fellow before? If so, what do you think would have been the outcome of his life ITTL?
Probably similar to OTL. And no, I hadn’t
So regarding the population of Continental Spain in 1915, in OTL it was 19 770 000 in 1910 compared to a total of 26 153 670 in TTL 1910 (which includes Cuba, Puerto Rico and Santo Domingo). For those three islands in 1910 OTL there populations were as follows, for Puerto Rico 1 118 012, for Santo Domingo I couldn't find a 1910 population but it is given as 894 000 from a 1920 census, and Cuba has a population of 2 048 980 in 1907 OTL.

I'll guess SD has a population of around 800 000, and cuba saw an average growth rate of 2.9% from 1907 to 1919 OTL with a population increase from 2.048 million to 2.889 million, which equals 2 232 461 in 1910. This gives Spain plus the three islands a total of 19 770 000 + 800 000 + 2 232 461 + 1 118 012 = 23 920 473 in 1910 OTL. This is about 2 233 197 people, or 9,33% lower than TTL, and results in a peninsular Spanish population of 19 770 000*(1+0.0933)= 21 614 541 people.

Spain grew by 660 000 from 19.7 million to 20.4 million OTL from 1910 to 1915, a 3,33% overall increase, or about 0,66% per annum. In TTL the increase from 1900 to 1910 was 8,1% relative to 6,75% OTL which is 20% above OTL. An increase in total of 4% could thus result, getting a population of 21 614 541*1,04 = 22 479 123 people in European Spain by 1915.
Love that you do these! So (European) Spain is tracking for about a 15% larger population - not shabby!

What's William English Walling up to? He might have been mentioned before but having him as a post-war dissident in an era of chaos I think he'd be good. He could represent a re-surgent workers movement in the South.
I’ll have to Google him
Happy Mexican Independence Day!
Yes indeed!
One question about TTL's march to the sea vs. the OTL Civil War march to the sea.

In the OTL March to the Sea, Sherman lived off the land and as far as I can tell did not have anything close to secure supply lines until reaching US lines after the double march north through North Carolina into Virginia. The other half of that is that if willing to go by road, Confederate Troops probably *could* have completely cut him off from the Union lines in Atlanta or elsewhere once he passed through
iTTL 1915 , OTOH, the supply needs are much greater with WWI level of need for Supply. Does this mean that the March to the Sea has to defend the *entire* Salient with the concern that the Confederates will swing back through Atlanta after the forces have passed through and cut them off? Does the USA (once it gets to Atlanta) have enough supplies to get to Savannah even with cut off supply lines?
There may be a massive repair and expansion of rail and road lines to handle the union supplies. One benefit may be the amount of labor liberated by the union advance.
They’ll definitely have to operate on very fragile lines to pull it off, just nothing as fragile as what Sherman dealt with
 
No clue, and I wouldn’t even know how to begin trying to calculate that

Probably similar to OTL. And no, I hadn’t

Love that you do these! So (European) Spain is tracking for about a 15% larger population - not shabby!


I’ll have to Google him

Yes indeed!


They’ll definitely have to operate on very fragile lines to pull it off, just nothing as fragile as what Sherman dealt with
Hmm. So the Confederacy is going to attempt to turn Pershing into Cornwallis. Strand him and his army in Central Georgia away from his supplies and force him to surrender. This leads to the Confederacy commanding the entire Confederate Army to head for Central Georgia. But a Slave blows up the Charlotte rail transfer yard keeping the Troops that were guarding Richmond from going south and saving Pershing's Army.
 
On the flip side the Confederate army of July 1916 here is worse off than the OTL Confederate Army of November 1864.
Oh, come now - this is ALL part of Vardaman's plan. He's been orchestrating it since before he was even President. Pershing is falling into a finely baited trap, the fool!!!!!!
 
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Oh, come now - his is ALL part of Vardaman's plan. He's been orchestrating it since before he was even President. Pershing is falling into a finely baited trap, the fool!!!!!!
yandy188619.jpg


Baldrick's plans are more plausible than Vardmann's
 
On the flip side the Confederate army of July 1916 here is worse off than the OTL Confederate Army of November 1864.
Is it? I’m open to an argument in either direction
Oh, come now - this is ALL part of Vardaman's plan. He's been orchestrating it since before he was even President. Pershing is falling into a finely baited trap, the fool!!!!!!
Steiner and his army will arrive in Macon any day now.
yandy188619.jpg


Baldrick's plans are more plausible than Vardmann's
Lol indeed
 
Is it? I’m open to an argument in either direction
I think so yeah. The economy is in a complete free fall here and they've already given up Richmond months ahead of OTL. The CSA OTL at least tried to attack Tennessee, where here that was never an option because of lack of men and supplies.

But it is closer for sure one way or the other.
 
I think so yeah. The economy is in a complete free fall here and they've already given up Richmond months ahead of OTL. The CSA OTL at least tried to attack Tennessee, where here that was never an option because of lack of men and supplies.

But it is closer for sure one way or the other.
True, but I don't think from a military production standpoint that Richmond is as important as it was in the iOTL Civil War. I've seen in *several* ATL with civil wars at about the same time as OTL that without Richmond a smaller confederacy has significant problems with making Cannons. I'd be *very* surprised if there were any weapons in this conflict that could only be produced in one place in the Confederacy. (Excluding Naval, the idea that some part of a ship that can only be produced in Norfolk isn't so bizarre)

Which reminds me. Is the United States the only nation in the Americas (Involved in the GAW or not) that is actually produced its own Dreadnoughts? Did everyone else buy theirs from Europe?
 
1916 Democratic National Convention
"...indeed, Smith had never even been as far west as Chicago, so in a sense his arrival at the convention hall in St. Louis was as much a personal journey of seeing these United States for the first time as it was a political one in which he, just as much as traveling companion Robert Wagner, was emerging as a major player in internal Democratic politics for the first time.

It was no secret that, as in all years, the nomination for the Presidency ran through the powerful, experienced New York delegation, chaired for the fourth and final time by Silent Charlie Murphy, the man who had taken Tammany from a felony-producing graft machine to a more respectable, though still demagogued, political operation. The same rules that had applied for decades to Democratic nominees did so here too - any victorious candidate would seize the brass ring only by winning two-thirds of all delegates present, which gave the numerous but less populous agrarian and mining Western states an effective veto on any nominee [1] but also meant that New York's bounty of delegates were necessary, if the state voted as a bloc as it had in the past, to secure the nomination.

At the past three conventions, this state of affairs had largely benefited William Randolph Hearst, the brash young New Yorker who had served two terms as President and come decently close to a third, thanks to his Western-appealing brand of personalist populism intermixed with East Coast cunning. In 1916, however, the odds of a Hearstian restoration were close to nil. While most Democrats admired him as the north star of the party and its most successful single political figure of the last seven decades, many men had set their own ambitions aside in 1912 to allow him to run a third time and more than a few others blamed him for the loss to Charles Evans Hughes, who was now showering the Liberals with his immense personal prestige in having guided the republic through the gauntlet despite his decision to retire after one exhausting term as a wartime President. Hearst's inability to anoint a ticket of his choice in 1914 in New York, whether a cut-out or himself, had also kneecapped his reputation back home, and instead his role as kingmaker-in-chief was seen as the likeliest way for him to flex his influence in St. Louis, a prospect that Murphy and his young proteges were decidedly unenthusiastic about.

The convention floor was exactly the environment for Smith, who had come to love the type of uniquely American wheeling-and-dealing that was conducted in such a space two years prior as he had stunned New York by brokering Gerard's surprise rise to the Governorship. As news arrived in St. Louis of Atlanta's fall on July 4th and hours later Hughes' address to the Liberals in Chicago confirming rumors that he would not run for re-election, the convention buzzed with activity, with political careers rising and falling within a matter of hours, a cacophony of chaos as Smith and Wagner agreed that a wartime election needed a wartime candidate - if a general could not be found who would leave the field for a different kind of grueling campaign, then the next best thing would be settled on, and a favorite son of New York quickly emerged as their favorite..."

- The Happy Warrior

"...Hodges himself snorted at Norris' quip that "elections are simply questions of arithmetic in the end," and remarked that this held true in the general election as well. In the penultimate Democratic convention that required the near-unanimity of two-thirds votes of the delegates, Norris in his role as an increasingly influential voice of Western interests had to find a man who could appeal to the extraordinarily cliqueish New York crew that had delivered Hearst three straight nominations and to Western Wall, who were increasingly disparate between nervous swing state leaders on the coast (where Liberals had advanced dramatically over the last decade), pseudo-socialists from the Mine Belt who only ever faced legitimate electoral threats from actual socialists, and agrarian populists such as himself and Hodges from the Grain Belt who had traditionally been the voice of the West and were loathe to give up that role.

Arithmetic also dictated that despite the favorite son campaigns of Senators Gil Hitchcock of Nebraska or James Phelan of California, a Westerner could not lead a ticket and was unlikely to see success as a running mate; swing states such as New York, Ohio, Indiana and Illinois were simply far, far too important and bore too much of an electoral bounty. Phelan seemed crucially aware of this, instead running largely to continue the work of his mentor and role model William Rosecrans - who had held the same Senate seat thirty years earlier - in making Sinophobia a mainstream, explicit plank of the Democratic Party platform. This endeavor failed, but language expressing skepticism about Asiatic migration was included in the party platforms of six states, rather than simply California, in large part thanks to his thunderous address on the first day of the convention regarding "the yellow peril in our time." Hitchcock, for his part, never quite forgave Norris for not whipping delegates in his favor to at least enjoy final leverage; Norris responded icily that Hitchcock was too much of a "Bryan man" to be trusted with more political influence and noted that Hitchcock was perhaps worse than any at playing the "game" back in Philadelphia.

Rather, the convention quickly began consolidating around a name pushed not just by young New York apparatchiks like Al Smith or Jim Farley but also senior figures like former Indiana Governor Tom Marshall: former New York Senator George McClellan. The speed with which McClellan rapidly emerged as the front-runner surprised Norris enough that he asked Fitzgerald what precisely had led to him taking off. The answer from the New Yorker surprised him - that essentially nobody else had wanted to run against Hughes when it was an open question what the President would do, and McClellan had accumulated a murderer's row of supporters over the spring while it seemed like it was a fool's errand to take the plunge. McClellan's calculation, essentially, was that he could run an honorable losing race (and most Democrats agreed that it was unlikely that the Liberals would lose), wait for the inevitable postwar struggles of a second Hughes term (or, in the end, Elihu Root's term), and then run again in 1920 on a platform of essentially asking voters whether they regretted rejecting him four years earlier.

As a candidate, McClellan was attractive. He had been a two-term Senator who gave up an easy re-election to serve in the war on General Farnsworth's staff, eventually promoted to colonel on his own merits, though he had served nowhere near the front lines. His father had been a senior officer in the War of Secession and later on a key figure in Democratic politics both nationally and in New Jersey, serving as governor of his home state as well as Secretary of State under both Seymour and Hoffman. He was thus something of party royalty going back decades, his Presidential ambitions stymied at first only by his deference to Hearst in 1912; the former President had not forgotten, and as such McClellan enjoyed the support of both the pro-and-anti Hearst wings of the Democratic Party. And most importantly, he was game and willing to sacrifice in a run for a job that promised to be so thankless that Hughes, whom Norris resented for his retirement leaving his party in the hands of "lesser men at the most critical hour,"

Norris saw clear limitations in this even as McClellan placed first, with a narrow majority, on the first three ballots and it became obvious that with concessions he would be the nominee. McClellan was a dull personality and was known on policy to be on the right flank of the party; hardly an inspiring choice for anything other than an honorable defeat when others were skeptical, and Norris doubted that in four years anybody would come back for him, either within the party or the general electorate. As such, the move to make, as he described it to Hodges, was to extract every concession possible from McClellan today in the party platform to secure him the West's delegates over figures such as the dogged but clearly declining John Kern, and thus deliver McClellan a united, but more progressive, party. As such, McClellan's people were forced to swallow planks that for the first time announced a Democratic Party decisively in favor of nationwide women's suffrage (thought to have been a factor in McClellan losing some working class votes in otherwise Democratic precincts), a constitutional amendment to end child labor (a longstanding priority of Kern), the expansion of worker's protections beyond the partial-fault compromise Norris had forged with Hughes, the permanent nationalization of the the railroads after the wartime emergency was over, and countless other smaller progressive priorities. Thanks in large part to the efforts of the diminutive Nebraskan, the Democratic platform of 1916, despite a fairly conservative and anodyne candidate at the top, represented a tremendous shift left from even the late Hearst years and the Common Cause. Further cementing this shift was the nomination of Ohio Senator Newton Baker, a protege of late former Vice President Tom Johnson, as McClellan's running mate. The New York-Ohio axis reformed as it had been in 1904, the Democrats had their nominee to face an identical state lineup of Elihu Root and James Garfield from the Liberals, and Norris had cemented himself yet again as the man who could not be counted out when opportunity presented itself..."

- The Gentle Knight: The Life and Ideals of George W. Norris

[1] As with the OTL South under this rule
 
So, I'm somewhat hoping that McClellan wins enough support for his sacrificial run here that he's the Dem's nominee in 1920 - if, for no other reason, than I've never seen a timeline where Jr. actually makes it to the Presideny. Then we can get a Midwesterner (really, any NON-NY candidate) in 1924 and Smith in 1928 to close out the Democratic trifecta. It wuld certainly make for an interesting 1920s - especially if the chaot of the Root years really causes the Dems to double-down on economic and political reform as their modus operandi.

Then we get a Liberal in charge frm 1932-40, only for Phil LaFollette to swing in like a knight in shining armor to secure the Dems return to power (okay, really, I'm just going to keep pushing Phil. That man deserves a MUCH more spectacular career than he received in OTL. If not President, I'm at least angling for him to be in the Senate along with his brother and maybe end up on the Supreme Court. *harrumpf*)
 
True, but I don't think from a military production standpoint that Richmond is as important as it was in the iOTL Civil War. I've seen in *several* ATL with civil wars at about the same time as OTL that without Richmond a smaller confederacy has significant problems with making Cannons. I'd be *very* surprised if there were any weapons in this conflict that could only be produced in one place in the Confederacy. (Excluding Naval, the idea that some part of a ship that can only be produced in Norfolk isn't so bizarre)

Which reminds me. Is the United States the only nation in the Americas (Involved in the GAW or not) that is actually produced its own Dreadnoughts? Did everyone else buy theirs from Europe?
That was more or less my thinking
So, I'm somewhat hoping that McClellan wins enough support for his sacrificial run here that he's the Dem's nominee in 1920 - if, for no other reason, than I've never seen a timeline where Jr. actually makes it to the Presideny. Then we can get a Midwesterner (really, any NON-NY candidate) in 1924 and Smith in 1928 to close out the Democratic trifecta. It wuld certainly make for an interesting 1920s - especially if the chaot of the Root years really causes the Dems to double-down on economic and political reform as their modus operandi.

Then we get a Liberal in charge frm 1932-40, only for Phil LaFollette to swing in like a knight in shining armor to secure the Dems return to power (okay, really, I'm just going to keep pushing Phil. That man deserves a MUCH more spectacular career than he received in OTL. If not President, I'm at least angling for him to be in the Senate along with his brother and maybe end up on the Supreme Court. *harrumpf*)
Two Senators LaFollette certainly gives off some very family machine vibes, which I do like haha
 
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