The more grim reading of this is that the treaties involving the end of the Central European War include/mandate ethnic population transfers between constituent states in the interest of removing future hotbeds of national friction, with Heinrich's Germany moving to deport many of Prussia's Poles eastward into a new Polish state (seeing as they are viewed as no longer likely to assimilate while in the eastern parts of Prussia). Seems more likely than offering the new Poland territory, regardless of the added human cost.
This is definitely much, much more likely than carving off anything around Posen just because it has Poles in it
The idea of soul-patched Fred Durst in lederhosen but still wearing a backwards baseball cap would almost make polka's dominance worth it.
Good God I fucking love this website 😂
There are two angles to this: firstly, Germany's motivations to keep it alive or not, and second, Austria's ability to keep control of its empire.

The first is the simplest one, and I can't really think of any way in which Germany would benefit more than annexing a piece and then having a bunch of smaller states that they can control. By leaving it alive, they also risk having to fight them again at some point.

The second is harder, but I don't think it looks any more promising for A-H. While OTL WW1 was longer and more intense than this one is probably gonna be, this one will be closer to home for A-H, and will likely end with their core areas in Austria and nowadays Czechia occupied. By the time the occupation is over, it'll be too late. Various countries will have already taken pieces: Serbia probably eats up Banat, Hungary and Romania will be at wat over Transylvania, Italy will occupy Dalmatia, and Russia will likely invade Galicia. The Hungarians were already pissed off and are not likely to want to go back.

In general, the Austrian Empire was based on military force and the prestige of the Habsburg monarchy, both of which are completely lost. There's not really a way to rollback all the changes during the war, and in the end there will probably be a rump occupation zone consisting of Austria and Czechia that will be completely at the Germans' mercy.
First part? Absolutely.

Croatia is actually the weak link in my plans, incidentally, since Italian ambitions in Dalmatia are sort of the unspoken problem there (the Austrian Littoral and probably Fiume are of course essentially a fait accompli)

Serbia has the Austrophile Montenegrins in charge now though some of the left bank of the Danube (certainly not the whole of Vojvodina) could be on offing
I agree, and there the question is, will the war engender enough bad will to overcome the idea of Anschluss?
That’s the million reichsmark question, isn’t it?
 
Croatia is actually the weak link in my plans, incidentally, since Italian ambitions in Dalmatia are sort of the unspoken problem there (the Austrian Littoral and probably Fiume are of course essentially a fait accompli)
I don't see a way of stopping Italy from basically taking as much as they want, given that Germany has little reason to care whether they dominate the Adriatic or not. The only way I could see them getting involved is if they are feeling bold and try to get Italy to leave Austria with roughly OTL Slovenia to get a Mediterranean port, in exchange for supporting ambitions elsewhere.
Serbia has the Austrophile Montenegrins in charge now though some of the left bank of the Danube (certainly not the whole of Vojvodina) could be on offing
"Austrophile" doesn't really mean much when Austria is practically dead, so I would expect them to scramble to find another Great Power sponsor and get as much territory as they can.
I agree, and there the question is, will the war engender enough bad will to overcome the idea of Anschluss?
We already had this discussion at length some pages ago so I don't wanna beat a dead horse, but in short: no, I don't believe so. From the Habsburg monarchies' side, german nationalists will blame the war on the lack of unity of the German people and on the Habsburg insistence to stay on away from Germany, while most of the German political spectrum would support it. It's also worth noting than OTL there were a lot of people who didn't think that Austria without its empire was a viable state, and I would imagine that narrative would win traction here too.
 
I don't see a way of stopping Italy from basically taking as much as they want, given that Germany has little reason to care whether they dominate the Adriatic or not. The only way I could see them getting involved is if they are feeling bold and try to get Italy to leave Austria with roughly OTL Slovenia to get a Mediterranean port, in exchange for supporting ambitions elsewhere.

"Austrophile" doesn't really mean much when Austria is practically dead, so I would expect them to scramble to find another Great Power sponsor and get as much territory as they can.

We already had this discussion at length some pages ago so I don't wanna beat a dead horse, but in short: no, I don't believe so. From the Habsburg monarchies' side, german nationalists will blame the war on the lack of unity of the German people and on the Habsburg insistence to stay on away from Germany, while most of the German political spectrum would support it. It's also worth noting than OTL there were a lot of people who didn't think that Austria without its empire was a viable state, and I would imagine that narrative would win traction here too.
Italy could actually make a lot of sense as a sponsor of both Montenegro and Serbia, and would set up well for any future issues they have with the OE to basically be backing an alt-Balkan League...
 
The Statesman: The Spain of Jose Canalejas
"...despite its latter year reputation as the bastion of Spanish conservatism as defined by modern-day leftists in post-industrial Andalusia and Catalonia, Madrid in the 1910s was instead rather a liberal stronghold, the beating heart of National Liberalism as the defined center of not just the Spanish state but indeed Spain's intellectual project of an inclusive, centralized country founded on common values and equality before the law rather than regionalism. It was Madrid's cafes that were filled with the leading lights of Spanish liberal thought, the Gran Retiro the park where politicians, lawyers and other advocates could debate one another on long strolls or rowboat rides in its vast central pond. It was in 1917 that Canalejas secured the funding to massively expand the campuses of not only the University of Madrid [1] but the Autonomous University, placing the capital at the center of Spanish learning and higher education, with both institutions today regarded not only as part of the city's economic lifeblood due to their vast size but held as some of the greatest centers of learning in Europe and the Spanish-speaking world.

Of course, there was a great deal of chagrin to this. Barcelona's Catalan nationalists and anarchists chafed at the idea that anything of value flowed out of Madrid other than their own repression; even fairly liberal-minded thinkers such as the staunch social liberal Miguel de Unamuno dismissed Madrid as a traditionalist Castilian stronghold, backwards compared to the cosmopolitan ports of Bilbao, Barcelona or Cadiz. Nonetheless, the Canalejas era that was marked by Spain's economic rejuvenation was as much a time of cultural renaissance unseen since the years immediately succeeding La Gloriosa, with public life in Madrid reinvigorated to make it the centrifugal force around which Spanish liberalism rotated.

And, by proxy of course, it meant that Madrid and its personalities became even further entrenched as the critical cogs in the National Liberal machinery as the power of the regional caciques continued to decline and more and more influence flowed towards the Tagus..."

- The Statesman: The Spain of Jose Canalejas

[1] OTL's Complutense
 
Ferdinand: The Last Emperor
"...the 1907 negotiation had been straightforward, simply over duties, spending, and contributions to the joing Austro-Hungarian military; indeed, the impression some in Vienna had had after them was that it was Hungary that had made some unexpected concessions. The 1917 round, however, had long been expected to be something different; it would come ten years later, with the Greens able to organize themselves in the interim and for Hungarian society to polarize further. It would land at the symbolic date of fifty years since the original Ausgleich and just a century after the Congress of Vienna. For Karolyists, it was an open question as to why exactly Hungary should continue to be governed under auspices a half-century or older. The ghosts of 1848 were still haunting Budapest, as it ever was.

The core problem ahead of the votes was that the Whites, who in theory supported Bethlen's cabinet of technocrats and obscure minor nobles, did not have a majority in the Diet, and if the renewal of the Compromise was defeated on the floor of the legislature then all hell was likely to break loose thereafter even if in practice the "expiration" of the previous terms would do little. It was symbolic - Hungary rejecting Compromise with Vienna would suggest a potential constitutional crisis, and not long after the events of November that had seen Apponyi cast to the wolves. As such, Ferdinand was not necessarily negotiating with Bethlen on the course ahead but also Karolyi, which immediately created massive problems that threatened to sink the whole endeavor.

Contrary to his portrayal in popular history, Karolyi was not as radical as his reputation suggested. He was a monarchist and indeed of noble origin; his views on domestic matters, setting aside his fierce Magyar nationalism, would not have been too different from many of the liberal landed nobility in the British House of Lords or Prussian Herrenhaus. The notion that he was a syndicalist instigator or a republican idealist are nonsense. That being said, Karolyi was aware of the moment at hand. Not only were his faction of the Greens firmly in the driver's seat, he took the survival of the Party of Independence in late February as a sign that it was time to press harder ahead.

One of the profound ironies of this hour, however, was that Karolyi - despite his maneuvering himself to the top of the Greens - had before 1916 been considered something of a naive and colorful gadfly by the Hungarian public. He was known for his drinking and gambling, for his lavish lifestyle and frequent travails in Parisian salons, and his being yet another powerful aristocrat (his wife as a lesser Andrassy) rather than for his political acumen and talent. Indeed, of the two men who helped plunge Hungary into crisis from the left, it was Jaszi who was the more powerful intellectual and capable organizer, having built the Radicals from the ground up. Nonetheless, Karolyi found himself thrust into the spotlight when Bethlen announced his Cabinet's initial proposal for the renewal of the Compromise on May 10th, 1917.

The Bethlen Compromise was a surprisingly liberal and nationalist document for being drafted by a cabinet supported by the minority Whites. It proposed an expansion of suffrage to a full twenty-two percent of the population and proposed a financial settlement that favored Hungary (largely by undoing the concessions of 1907). For Karolyi, this was not good enough. On May 13th, having read the proposal, he gave a speech flanked by Jaszi that demanded a secret ballot before they would sign onto any "negotiation;" further, Karolyi announced that the terms of the financial renewal would need to be further adjusted in Hungary's favor, potentially including Hungary's right to mint its own currency, and opened the door to a "constitutional compromise" rather than a financial one, with his most radical proposal being re-empowering the Palatine of Hungary to act as the Emperor-King's viceroy. That Archduke Joseph August was the titular (though entirely powerless) Palatine was a major factor in this proposal; Joseph August was well-liked by the Hungarian street amongst both ethnic Magyars and the minorities, and his sympathies for the cause of the Lands of St. Stephen were well known even if he kept them private to avoid embarrassing his cousins in Vienna.

Ferdinand was aghast, though at first discussions around a response were limited. Several advisors suggested calling Karolyi's bluff and having Bethlen put his initial proposal on the floor of the Diet; this was a popular course of action amongst more moderate "Prague Circle" figures whom Ferdinand had spent the last six months bringing into his immediate orbit in Vienna. It should be clear that there was no suggestion that Ferdinand actually take Karolyi seriously or attempt to engage with him, as such a suggestion would have seen whoever made it ejected from the Schonbrun in quick order. The view that won out came from Moritz von Auffenberg, a staff officer promoted within the War Ministry shortly before Franz Josef's death and for years a close confidant of the new Emperor from outside the famed Prague clique. Auffenberg denounced Karolyi as a traitor and proposed his immediate exile for threatening "the constitutional underpinnings of the Hungarian state." Bethlen was alarmed at this provocation but it was a popular position amongst many Whites, who hoped that Karolyi's exit stage left would allow more "malleable" Greens like Apponyi to once again enjoy sway.

As such, after Karolyi again threatened to defeat the Compromise and again demanded a "constitutional congress" to resolve the issues at the heart of Austria-Hungary, Bethlen announced their immediate arrest for inciting rebellion against the Crown but signalled through intermediaries to Karolyi that if he immediately went into exile, he would not be molested by the authorities in transit. Karolyi, Jaszi and sixteen others, primarily of the Radical Party, thus fled in late May to the port of Fiume and from there sailed across the Adriatic to Italy, where on June 4th they gathered in Milan and announced a "Democratic Government of Hungary" in exile, proclaiming to "represent the general interests of the Magyar people within the Habsburg realms." (Note that this declaration still recognized Habsburg authority, and very pointedly recognized "Magyar" peoples). These "Milan Magyars" became a sensation in European diplomatic circles, utterly unrecognized but still seen as an interesting novelty if for nothing else the enormous provocation that this represented. Italy's ambassador to Vienna (not Budapest) visited Ferdinand within days to assure him that Italy did not recognize Karolyi in the least and dismissed the Democratic Government as an "idle thought experiment by aggrieved exiles;" Ferdinand did not see it that way and was privately angered that Italy did not expel Karolyi over the risk he represented to Austro-Italian relations, insulted that the government of Antonio Salandra did not place the Milan Magyars on the first train to Switzerland, as was regarded as the proper course of action to do with such instigators.

The proclamation of a pseudo-cabinet in Milanese exile caused massive problems for Bethlen, as well. Massive protests erupted across Budapest in June and July, with no renewal of the Compromise in sight. The Prime Minister was a dedicated White but nonetheless, and probably correctly, deduced that Hungarian public opinion needed to be sated more than Viennese elite opinion and that the path out of the crisis needed to be found in Hungary. He thus resubmitted his Compromise proposals, this time with crucial modifications around military spending that proposed a slight reduction in the size of the Common Army and a substantial increase in the size of the Honved, and critically he published this new package of reforms tied to the renewal of the Compromise in Hungarian newspapers as the "Compromise for Peace." It did not go so far as the near-wholesale rejection of 1867 that Karolyi supported that would have essentially returned to a personal union, but it was a much greater step than any other White would likely have taken.

Had Ferdinand accepted this proposal, history may have gone very different. Hungarian radicals may not have been entirely satisfied but Bethlen had voluntarily placed his neck on the headsman's block, politically, to rescue the Ausgleich after only four months in office. But this revision was not accepted, as much due to Ferdinand's refusal to consider any constitutional modifications that further decentralized the Habsburg realm as the War Ministry's apoplexy at the idea of a strong, independent Honved that served as anything more than a home guard. The rejection of this peace offering saddened Bethlen, and on principle he resigned on July 20th, 1917. The crisis deepened dramatically, but Bethlen was seen by his countrymen as choosing Hungarian honor over prostrating himself to Vienna, and he was one of the few figures of the 1916-19 prewar crisis to emerge with his reputation intact to the point that he became a key figure of postwar Hungary thereafter..."

- Ferdinand: The Last Emperor
 
Karolyi, Jaszi and sixteen others, primarily of the Radical Party, thus fled in late May to the port of Fiume and from there sailed across the Adriatic to Italy, where on June 4th they gathered in Milan and announced a "Democratic Government of Hungary" in exile, proclaiming to "represent the general interests of the Magyar people within the Habsburg realms."
How was CEW delayed untill 1919 after this!
 
How was CEW delayed untill 1919 after this!
Because right now we’re still in the “internal political crisis” stage
Ferdinand is being an idiot in all honesty.
I agree. He was not a super sharp guy IOTL, though.

Yes, he saw the need to modernize many Austrian institutions, but his hatred of Magyars blinded him immensely and he was also a huge fan of Karl Lueger. Some transformational liberal, he was not.
 
Some transformational liberal, he was not.
FF suffers from the same thing JFK does - he was assassinated and what followed was so chaotic people just assume that the dead leader would have made everything sunshine and rainbows. Just like JFK (likely) wouldn't have pulled out of Vietnam (much to Oliver Stone's chagrin) a living FF doesn't necessarily lead to a 20th Century free of strife and conflict.
 
In CdM, this group is playing this song (
) to fully packed rugby stadiums!
KILL IT WITH FIRE
FF suffers from the same thing JFK does - he was assassinated and what followed was so chaotic people just assume that the dead leader would have made everything sunshine and rainbows. Just like JFK (likely) wouldn't have pulled out of Vietnam (much to Oliver Stone's chagrin) a living FF doesn't necessarily lead to a 20th Century free of strife and conflict.
Well put!

Also, I do enjoy the idea as an alt-history writer (a la Steven King in 11/22/63) that FF not dying starts a general war in Europe much like him dying… started a general war in Europe.
 
I should add that “For Want of a Sandwich,” which explores a surviving FF scenario, honestly has a possibly more batshit 20th century than OTL and is worth reading if you haven’t checked it out. I give it my non-coveted stamp of “best TLs on the site” along with Empire Parnell Built, Geronimo, A Day in July and A Place in the Sun
 
Also, I do enjoy the idea as an alt-history writer (a la Steven King in 11/22/63) that FF not dying starts a general war in Europe much like him dying… started a general war in Europe.
POD is pretty simple - Sophie dies, FF lives, and everything pretty much happens on schedule.

If you butterfly away June 28 entirely (Príncip misses his train, loses his nerve, whatever) you'd probably still have some sort of Great Power war as Germany realizes an industrialized Russia will need to be attacked sooner rather than later and France is still bitter and paranoid. Some sort of war is pretty much unavoidable IMO. Some stupidity provokes a July Crisis and we're off to the races.
 
While not supporting or giving any official or unofficial aid the Milanese government in exile, frankly any italian goverment (except OTL Crispi) will have looked the other way to their presence...at least for a while. Why? Cheap way to show the diplomatic middle finger to Wien, expecially ITTL where the two nation are not officially allied, quite the contrary instead; plus send them away unless done very quickly and extremely privately will have caused problem to the goverment that will have be open to accusation to being weak in front to the Austrian and submit to their dicktat
 
While not supporting or giving any official or unofficial aid the Milanese government in exile, frankly any italian goverment (except OTL Crispi) will have looked the other way to their presence...at least for a while. Why? Cheap way to show the diplomatic middle finger to Wien, expecially ITTL where the two nation are not officially allied, quite the contrary instead; plus send them away unless done very quickly and extremely privately will have caused problem to the goverment that will have be open to accusation to being weak in front to the Austrian and submit to their dicktat
That but also, like… the Milan Magyars aren’t actually a government in exile, it’s a bunch of opposition politicians showing up and declaring themselves one! The Salandra government has no reason or obligation to do anything regarding them, in either direction
 
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