So the CSA finally falls, or at least Richmond does. Long time coming. Wonder what the final treaty will look like.
Sequel de Mayo (Cinco de Mayo, Vol. II)
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
KingSweden24: I know you don't want to get into to much detail, (Lord-n-Lady know you're doing enough writing as is and a great job of it 
) but I'm trying to get my head around the equipment being used in the conflict of the GAW.
The "landships" would probably look like early "tanks" but honestly the amount of times that America went off the rails in such design work initially is really surprising. I can imagine some really 'weird' looking vehicles from the start with standardization probably not coming till after the war. (That said I'm having flashbacks to an early Mexican "tank" design with a 37mm Hotchkiss revolving cannon mounted in the body essentially firing through a 'window' cut in the bow armor)
Aviation design is likely different given that without the Wright brothers decade long legal fight over aviation development the US would likely develop more on part with what happened in Europe.
Kind of wonder if the US would push something like the "Liberty" engine design of OTL for general use in the military.
Airship design also is something to consider since I'm kind of guessing the US has essentially "air superiority" over the CSA at least on most tactical levels. Likely less rigid dirigibles and more non-rigid, or semi-rigid designs. Oddly helium was known from gas wells in Kansas in 1903 but production didn't really begin till the inter-war period OTL and given the military need most airships in TTL will still use hydrogen being cheaper and easier to make.
Again, Americans have a history of going off on quite the "interesting" tangent in all these areas so the results might not be what one would assume
Randy
) but I'm trying to get my head around the equipment being used in the conflict of the GAW.The "landships" would probably look like early "tanks" but honestly the amount of times that America went off the rails in such design work initially is really surprising. I can imagine some really 'weird' looking vehicles from the start with standardization probably not coming till after the war. (That said I'm having flashbacks to an early Mexican "tank" design with a 37mm Hotchkiss revolving cannon mounted in the body essentially firing through a 'window' cut in the bow armor
)Aviation design is likely different given that without the Wright brothers decade long legal fight over aviation development the US would likely develop more on part with what happened in Europe.
Kind of wonder if the US would push something like the "Liberty" engine design of OTL for general use in the military.
Airship design also is something to consider since I'm kind of guessing the US has essentially "air superiority" over the CSA at least on most tactical levels. Likely less rigid dirigibles and more non-rigid, or semi-rigid designs. Oddly helium was known from gas wells in Kansas in 1903 but production didn't really begin till the inter-war period OTL and given the military need most airships in TTL will still use hydrogen being cheaper and easier to make.
Again, Americans have a history of going off on quite the "interesting" tangent in all these areas so the results might not be what one would assume
Randy
As a note, the US Navy is probably still treading lightly in British Waters. Trying to stop smuggling between Southern Florida and the Bahamas is going to be just about impossible, (at its closest, the Bimini Islands, are about 50 miles from Miami) It is a hole in the Anaconda plan, but if it gets too obnoxious, the USMC just comes ashore and burns whatever landing facilities are in Florida, and if necessary any rail going north from that point. Between the naval victories and diplomatic work the US has been able to get the Europeans where they want them, you might even see British, Dutch and French merchant ships *willingly* sail into New York or Boston by Summer of 1915. I'm not particularly sure that the US would *want* a European power to join the fight on their side, it just complicates things.
I wonder if the U.S Army built the equivalent of the M1917 tank or the 3-Ton M1918. I know in my heart they probably built both to fight in this war, but I personally prefer the M1918. It has soul.
3-Ton M1918
Honestly, I expect the next war in the area will be an Ottoman Empire vs. *everyone*. (Well, not sure which side the British will be on). The big question is who gets the Suez Canal in the treaty that ends the CEW.
WW1-era tech was wildly ad hoc, in the end!KingSweden24: I know you don't want to get into to much detail, (Lord-n-Lady know you're doing enough writing as is and a great job of it
The "landships" would probably look like early "tanks" but honestly the amount of times that America went off the rails in such design work initially is really surprising. I can imagine some really 'weird' looking vehicles from the start with standardization probably not coming till after the war. (That said I'm having flashbacks to an early Mexican "tank" design with a 37mm Hotchkiss revolving cannon mounted in the body essentially firing through a 'window' cut in the bow armor
Aviation design is likely different given that without the Wright brothers decade long legal fight over aviation development the US would likely develop more on part with what happened in Europe.
Kind of wonder if the US would push something like the "Liberty" engine design of OTL for general use in the military.
Airship design also is something to consider since I'm kind of guessing the US has essentially "air superiority" over the CSA at least on most tactical levels. Likely less rigid dirigibles and more non-rigid, or semi-rigid designs. Oddly helium was known from gas wells in Kansas in 1903 but production didn't really begin till the inter-war period OTL and given the military need most airships in TTL will still use hydrogen being cheaper and easier to make.
Again, Americans have a history of going off on quite the "interesting" tangent in all these areas so the results might not be what one would assume
Randy
european merchants have always been willing to go to US ports, that was the whole point of the Crewe Note
In its entirety? Unlikely, but probably much more than OTL
OMG 😂😂
Those jokes have an audience of maybe ten people, the majority of whom presumably read this TL. That’s my way of saying I appreciate them very much!
I think Salgado is poor in maths... Does he not know that Σ is not used in integration? He has to use ∫ for that!
More or less haha. It’s sort of like the Orleanist v Legitimist v Bonapartist flamewars on what was once Twitter. Like… why?
Ha!
At least they keep to Twitter. The Italian pretenders once tried to beat each other up at a Spanish royal wedding.
The Matriarch: Empress Margarita Clementina and the Emergence of a Modern Mexico
"...more than a few suspected foul play. The decisive majority which the Concordancia entered the Imperial Assembly with at the conclusion of the late April elections was perhaps not so suspicious, though, in seeing that the former Bloc Independiente had absorbed not only Limantour's Liberal Union in the fold but also moderate reformist former Maderistas who were put off by what had gone on during the Biennio Maderato (particularly vis a vis the justice system) and moderate conservatives who were uninterested in sharing the fate, either political or corporal, of Creel or Molina. In that sense, what Reyes represented with the Concordancia was a big-tent, catch-all postwar party meant to unite Mexico behind it and rebuild together, putting an end to the polarization, violence and discord that had plagued Mexican politics since the collapse of the UP that was, the UP of Zuloaga and Miramon, in 1907. It was not just the increasingly confident cosmopolitan upper and middle classes that represented Reyes' base that felt that way, either; after the Maderato, the Panic, the war, the Red Battalions and finally the October Putsch, most Mexicans simply felt exhausted and ready to return to the good days of yesteryear, and in El Primer Jefe they had an easy vehicle to do so. [1]
Reyes further smoothed over ruffled feathers by appointing a Cabinet that was equal parts his former allies (dismissed as cronies by men such as Abraham Gonzalez) as well as rivals, so he could keep a close eye on them. Lascurain was kept on as Foreign Minister to take advantage of his experience, while Limantour was made Minister of Public Works, a good fit for his more technocratic mind; de la Barra was meanwhile given the Ambassadorship to the Austrian court, the most prestigious diplomatic posting in Mexico. But it was Reyes' trusted inner circle who got the best positions. Carranza was made Minister of Finance, a crucial position for one of Mexico's cannier politicians and the man widely viewed as Reyes' civilian protege, while Carbajal - perhaps in return for his loyalty throughout 1915 - was anointed Minister of War, a downgrade from Finance as he had held since October but one he was made to swallow regardless. Miguel Mondragon, long Reyes' favorite, was made Chief of the General Staff; the Reyes Era had fully begun, and there was no question who was totally in charge.
For Reyes, the peace with the United States was just the first step, especially as aspersions were cast on his electoral triumph on the heels of staging an effective putsch to take over the civilian government. It thus surprised nobody that Reyes, in his first speech after the election, announced in essence that having consolidated power in Mexico City, it was time to reconsolidate Mexico under his rule - even if he did not use such strong language. What did surprise most was that he turned his attention towards Pancho Villa in the north first, rather than the much closer and larger Zapatista revolt that now held sway across a wide swath of the Mexican south. This was for two reasons. The first was that, quite simply, Zapata actually had a genuine political program of land reform and peasants' rights, a program that made him much more dangerous than the dashing and daring banditry of Villa but also a more sympathetic figure to the Mexican street and also, surprisingly, to a number of Reyista officials, particularly Carranza, who was a known advocate of limited land reform and restoring some rights to ejidos that had deteriorated over the years. The other was geopolitical and historical; Reyes had come of age militarily putting down the Revolt of the Caudillos thirty years earlier and he regarded trouble in Mexico's long-restive Norte as the biggest threat to the government of the day, and also wanted to make sure that the explosive issues in Texas did not spill across the Rio Bravo and trigger a transnational revolution that would be virtually impossible to quell. Villa was thus the priority, and the reorganized Mexican Army marched north on May 5th, 1916 [2] to challenge his control over Chihuahua and her environs.
The operation to defeat Villa actually veered relatively close to disaster, and Mexicans today perhaps do not realize how close Reyes' forces were to being successfully ambushed and perhaps even defeated by Villa in the hills west of Torreon on May 13th; only a lucky spotting by a scouting plane and quick thinking from the commanding officer Pablo Gonzalez averted a successful pincer. Having avoided Villa's trap, Gonzalez's forces regrouped in Torreon, resupplied themselves, and then carried out a series of increasingly aggressive attacks supplemented by aerial cover and the use of rail-mounted artillery to Camargo, Parral, and Delicias over the course of the next three weeks, until attacking Chihuahua from both south and east on June 7th and surrounding a major element of Villa's most experienced fighters. Villa and his two chief lieutenants were able to slip the vice and escape towards the Arizona border and the US forces across from Agua Prieta, but close to ten thousand Villistas were killed, wounded or captured at Chihuahua and the survivors were, to the man, thrown in labor camps across the Mexican south with stiff sentences of ten years; it was rumored that Reyes himself intervened to prevent amnesty or pardons for any of the men, who unlike Zapata's followers were dismissed as bandits and criminals.
The ferocity of this response did not go unnoticed in the south of Mexico or elsewhere, for that matter. Zapatista activity slowed notably throughout the summer of 1916 as the rebel leader considered how best to continue his cause now with the full attention of Reyes upon him and Guatemala and Honduras in total anarchy. American observers were also put off, though for other reasons - Villa had in the United States become a celebrity, aided by a remarkably sophisticated public relations operation [3] that included photographers (and even a film crew) capturing his exploits. To many Americans, Villa was not an opportunist warlord but rather the handsome and noble ally of Pershing, immortalized in the photos and footage of him in a pith hat or, more iconically, his grand sombrero on horseback with looping bullet belts. It was this image of Villa that was cultivated throughout the 1920s during Villa's lengthy exile in the United States, where he spent much of the early half of the decade in California (including playing himself in a number of films that helped further build his folk legend status), before retiring to New York, where he would die in January of 1932..."
- The Matriarch: Empress Margarita Clementina and the Emergence of a Modern Mexico
[1] But also the election was probably totally rigged, notwithstanding all this, because come on
[2]
[3] This is true to OTL - before he poked the bear with the Columbus, New Mexico raid, Pancho Villa was held in very high regard in the United States via a very savvy PR campaign to enhance his image and deride that of Huerta. It is in part from there which the song La Cucuracha, sung by Villistas about Huerta, came from, and he really did portray himself in film
Reyes further smoothed over ruffled feathers by appointing a Cabinet that was equal parts his former allies (dismissed as cronies by men such as Abraham Gonzalez) as well as rivals, so he could keep a close eye on them. Lascurain was kept on as Foreign Minister to take advantage of his experience, while Limantour was made Minister of Public Works, a good fit for his more technocratic mind; de la Barra was meanwhile given the Ambassadorship to the Austrian court, the most prestigious diplomatic posting in Mexico. But it was Reyes' trusted inner circle who got the best positions. Carranza was made Minister of Finance, a crucial position for one of Mexico's cannier politicians and the man widely viewed as Reyes' civilian protege, while Carbajal - perhaps in return for his loyalty throughout 1915 - was anointed Minister of War, a downgrade from Finance as he had held since October but one he was made to swallow regardless. Miguel Mondragon, long Reyes' favorite, was made Chief of the General Staff; the Reyes Era had fully begun, and there was no question who was totally in charge.
For Reyes, the peace with the United States was just the first step, especially as aspersions were cast on his electoral triumph on the heels of staging an effective putsch to take over the civilian government. It thus surprised nobody that Reyes, in his first speech after the election, announced in essence that having consolidated power in Mexico City, it was time to reconsolidate Mexico under his rule - even if he did not use such strong language. What did surprise most was that he turned his attention towards Pancho Villa in the north first, rather than the much closer and larger Zapatista revolt that now held sway across a wide swath of the Mexican south. This was for two reasons. The first was that, quite simply, Zapata actually had a genuine political program of land reform and peasants' rights, a program that made him much more dangerous than the dashing and daring banditry of Villa but also a more sympathetic figure to the Mexican street and also, surprisingly, to a number of Reyista officials, particularly Carranza, who was a known advocate of limited land reform and restoring some rights to ejidos that had deteriorated over the years. The other was geopolitical and historical; Reyes had come of age militarily putting down the Revolt of the Caudillos thirty years earlier and he regarded trouble in Mexico's long-restive Norte as the biggest threat to the government of the day, and also wanted to make sure that the explosive issues in Texas did not spill across the Rio Bravo and trigger a transnational revolution that would be virtually impossible to quell. Villa was thus the priority, and the reorganized Mexican Army marched north on May 5th, 1916 [2] to challenge his control over Chihuahua and her environs.
The operation to defeat Villa actually veered relatively close to disaster, and Mexicans today perhaps do not realize how close Reyes' forces were to being successfully ambushed and perhaps even defeated by Villa in the hills west of Torreon on May 13th; only a lucky spotting by a scouting plane and quick thinking from the commanding officer Pablo Gonzalez averted a successful pincer. Having avoided Villa's trap, Gonzalez's forces regrouped in Torreon, resupplied themselves, and then carried out a series of increasingly aggressive attacks supplemented by aerial cover and the use of rail-mounted artillery to Camargo, Parral, and Delicias over the course of the next three weeks, until attacking Chihuahua from both south and east on June 7th and surrounding a major element of Villa's most experienced fighters. Villa and his two chief lieutenants were able to slip the vice and escape towards the Arizona border and the US forces across from Agua Prieta, but close to ten thousand Villistas were killed, wounded or captured at Chihuahua and the survivors were, to the man, thrown in labor camps across the Mexican south with stiff sentences of ten years; it was rumored that Reyes himself intervened to prevent amnesty or pardons for any of the men, who unlike Zapata's followers were dismissed as bandits and criminals.
The ferocity of this response did not go unnoticed in the south of Mexico or elsewhere, for that matter. Zapatista activity slowed notably throughout the summer of 1916 as the rebel leader considered how best to continue his cause now with the full attention of Reyes upon him and Guatemala and Honduras in total anarchy. American observers were also put off, though for other reasons - Villa had in the United States become a celebrity, aided by a remarkably sophisticated public relations operation [3] that included photographers (and even a film crew) capturing his exploits. To many Americans, Villa was not an opportunist warlord but rather the handsome and noble ally of Pershing, immortalized in the photos and footage of him in a pith hat or, more iconically, his grand sombrero on horseback with looping bullet belts. It was this image of Villa that was cultivated throughout the 1920s during Villa's lengthy exile in the United States, where he spent much of the early half of the decade in California (including playing himself in a number of films that helped further build his folk legend status), before retiring to New York, where he would die in January of 1932..."
- The Matriarch: Empress Margarita Clementina and the Emergence of a Modern Mexico
[1] But also the election was probably totally rigged, notwithstanding all this, because come on
[2]
[3] This is true to OTL - before he poked the bear with the Columbus, New Mexico raid, Pancho Villa was held in very high regard in the United States via a very savvy PR campaign to enhance his image and deride that of Huerta. It is in part from there which the song La Cucuracha, sung by Villistas about Huerta, came from, and he really did portray himself in film
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