Sweden decisively wins the Battle of Langnes

[cjc]

Battle of Langnes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Battle of Langnes was the last battle of the Norway swedish war of 1814. The battle ended in a stalemate with the Norwegian army able to retreat in good order across the Langnes River. This showed that the war was going to go on far longer then Sweden was particularly prepared for (they were especially worried about foreign interference). This lead to Norway haveing its own separate government and constitution (along with being seen as a sovereign state).

Frankly consdering the state of tge Norwegian army at this point in the war I don't think it would have taken much to create a desisive defeat during this battle, and completely destroying the army probably would be necessary inorder to render it combat incapable.

So what would have happened if Sweden had been able to force a unconditional defeat on Norway during the 1814 war. Leading probably to no sparet Norwegian parliament or institutions. How would that effect the Norway-swedish union over the course of the 19th century. Would Norway even be able to separate form Sweden by 1905 without the separate institutions that lead it then?

 

[Gabingston]

I'm afraid this battle took place 86 years too early to be in this thread.
EDIT: It was originally in the After 1900 thread, but was moved by the mods.

 

[Ramontxo]

Yes, should go to the pre1900 forum. But I am interested in the posted question and shall follow it there.

 

[cjc]

Thank you mods, sorry about that.

 

[arctic warrior]

Its not only a question of Military defeat but also what happen next. Christian Frederik the Heir to the Danish throne had been elected King of Norway - he would abdicate and leave his Kingdom as OTL. However there was a tradition made law that the Estates would be heard regarding changes in the state of the Kingdom. The Norwegians wanted a national Bank and a large degree of independence.
If the new Parliament and Constitution is abolished by the Swedish King/Government the Norwegians will resent this as it will return them to the untill then state of Union with Denmark.
OTL quite some Norwegian officers entered Danish Service following 1814 some more may want to do so ITTL though this may be of limited effect.
Having tasted Liberty and Independence the Norwegians will be wanting this.
Don't know how badly thing would go but if things go as OTL 1905 may be the time the Norwegians will attempt to secede from Sweden. An important issue will be Swedens defence against Russia which was very much a Norwegian issue too. That may lead to a Norwegian Army as during Danish rule though the effect upon Naval matters is something else as the Danish-Norwegian Navy was oriented towards both the North Sea and Baltic while the Swedish will be oriented toward the Baltic though will need some units on the North Sea - Atlantic. With Russia loosing the Russo-Japanese War and the Europan Powers fixed upon Morocco a strategic window will be open and OTL Denmark was willing to ally to Norway.

 

[M79]

No Convention of Moss as a result of Norway's defeat, so no guaranteed rights for Norway as a country or for its constitution to be recognized. If Christian Frederik is captured expect additional concessions from Denmark, probably in the form of money or possibly minor islands. Norway seethes for a while but with no legal grain of sand in a Convention of Moss as the basis for the pearl of Norwegian nationalism, regional differences will continue but not like OTL. What may also change is 1864 - if Christian IX of Denmark is even less stable in the throne of Denmark perhaps Sweden actually pulls off a united Scandinavia before the end of the American Civil War.

 

[arctic warrior]

No Convention of Moss as a result of Norway's defeat, so no guaranteed rights for Norway as a country or for its constitution to be recognized.

Norway seethes for a while but with no legal grain of sand in a Convention of Moss as the basis for the pearl of Norwegian nationalism, regional differences will continue but not like OTL.

Indeed not but it had and has significant influence on Norwegian thinking and perception of the Nation.

If Christian Frederik is captured expect additional concessions from Denmark, probably in the form of money or possibly minor islands.

Well of course as he was the Cown Prince. Bornholm - they wouldn't like it. Læsø/Anholt in Skagerrak-Kattegat might do or rather the West Indies which probably be thought of as much better as they still were sugarcane producers and gave much revenue.

What may also change is 1864 - if Christian IX of Denmark is even less stable in the throne of Denmark perhaps Sweden actually pulls off a united Scandinavia before the end of the American Civil War.

Swedish King Carl XV was a Scandinavist but his Government less so. There was plans to kidnap the King and Royal Family following the war to intern them in Sweden and force the Union/Federation through. Bismarck was ready to do so possibly give North Schleswig to Scandinavian Union in return for alliance against Russia.
Christian visited one of the redoubts at Dybbel during the siege - the Prussians didn't fire at that redoubt during his presence but then his 21 old son Frederik would have been the new King. Depending on his views of Royal lineage he may have been as German friendly as his father wanting to preserve the Nation with its German Duchies which was impossible and the coup going ahead anyway.
The plan to overtrow the King was publicised by the Min. of Justice to the press during spring of 1865 which forced Bismarck to abandon the plan and the Minister to leave his post. Perhaps if it had been done just post war AND the wants of the King to keep his Duchies and enter the German Confederation had been disclosed too as he wanted his ministers to agree to it during negotiations it would have sunk the Royal project.
Another possible is Frederik VII not drinking himself to death during November 1863 and living past the defeat to circumvent the Great Powers project of putting Christian IX on the throne.