WI an independent Quebec adopted the Euro?

[proximefactum]

This is a take-off on the Quebec secedes in 1983 thread. One of the big questions about Quebec independence is how to become independent and maintain a strong currency. Would it be possible for an independent Quebec to become the first member of the Eurozone outside of Europe that's not a colony or protectorate of a European country? The ECB has taken Slovenia on as a Eurozone member, why not Quebec, which surely has a larger GDP? Could France be a "sponsor"?

But, Quebec taking the Euro might have adverse consequences. (now) the Euro is stronger than the US dollar. While it would have a national financial board, Quebec would have to rely on the faraway ECB for most of its monetary policy. Quebec might be subject to the uniform interest rates of the Eurozone. What would Ottawa's response be? How could Canada play Quebec's distance from the Eurozone to its favor? Would the ECB let Quebec adjust its own interest rates given that it participates in an entirely different market on a separate continent?

 

[trekchu]

Quebec isn't even remotely in Europe, hence why I find it hard to believe that the ECB would even consider this.

 

[iori]

I really don't see it happening, since the Euro is meant to be a European currency, and Quebec would not be considered European.

The only way they could would be to adopt it without permission (like some small European states have), but that would'nt work to well since their would'nt exactly be alot of Euro's coming in and out of the country to use.

 

[Corbell Mark IV]

Geographic limitations strike me as a technicality.

If Quebec was a member of both the North America's trade zone and Europes, that would encourage transhipping.

Quebec could try re-installing the Queen as Sovereign so they could claim to be European, since they are "ruled" from London.

That would be hilarious!

 

[Bill Cameron]

A nation simply doesn't ditch it's own currency and adopt the euro. There are substantial and rather technical financial requirements involved.

Let me suggest that the OP google the term "Euro Zone".


Bill

 

[fhaessig]

A
Let me suggest that the OP google the term "Euro Zone".

Malta and french guyana, among others, use Euro.

So geographical criteria are not absolute.

Monaco and Vatican uses Euro.

So it's not necessary to be part of Euro group or even EU to use Euro.

 

[trekchu]

Malta and french guyana, among others, use Euro.

So geographical criteria are not absolute.

Monaco and Vatican uses Euro.

So it's not necessary to be part of Euro group or even EU to use Euro.

French Guyana uses the Euro because it is a full French departement, and the others do becuase they are too closely tied to Europe economically. Geography is a factor.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

Well, they can turn independent just to become a French department

 

[Jimbrock]

Malta and french guyana, among others, use Euro.

So geographical criteria are not absolute.

Monaco and Vatican uses Euro.

So it's not necessary to be part of Euro group or even EU to use Euro.

*smiles sweetly* Malta is IN the EU. And dont get into the whole geographically not thing. Malta is also officialy part of the Eurozone.

Why would Quebec want the Euro in the first place anyway, with all these disadvantages?

Jim

 

[fhaessig]

*smiles sweetly* Malta is IN the EU.
Jim

But neither Monaco nor Vatican are.

Please read the post before answering

 

[trekchu]

But neither Monaco nor Vatican are.

Please read the post before answering

But they are economically tied to Europe, and are part in all but name. For example Monaco used the French Franc before the Euro!

 

[Bill Cameron]

Malta and french guyana, among others, use Euro.

fhaessig,

Malta is in the EU and French Guyana is a department of France, another country that is in the EU.

So geographical criteria are not absolute.

Read my post again and tell me where I mentioned geography.

The term "euro zone" officially means those countries who have adopted euros as their official currency or have negotiated the right to print euros.

There's a slang version of the term that is geographical in nature, but I wasn't writing about some piece of geographical shorthand. I, like the OP's actual question, was writing about the requirements necessary in adopting euros as an official currency. The fact that we both used the term adopt is a clue to that.

Monaco and Vatican uses Euro.

You forgot San Marino. All three microstates are too small to effect the EU economy, so all three were allowed to adopt euros as their official currency and mint coins without meeting the treaty requirements

So it's not necessary to be part of Euro group or even EU to use Euro.

That's not what the question is about. Read it again.

I can use an euro anywhere on Earth that will take it. The OP asked about adopting the euro as an official currency and there are a series of quite substantial standards to meet.

You've got to have annual budget deficits under a certain amount, your national debt must be under a certain amount, you need to meet and continually work towards the Maastricht convergence targets, you need to sign pact of treaties on stability and growth, and you need to ratify two sections of the overall EU treaty. I'm sure there are other things I've forgotten and left out too.

Once a nation does all that, the euro becomes their official currency, their allowed to mint and print euros, and they get representation in the EU central bank.

Any jackass can use euros. Only certain nations can meet the strict requirements to adopt euros as their official currency.

Glancing at your profile, I see that you're from Holland which makes your post rather odd. Why does it seem that you understand the mechanisms behind your own currency? The EU nations are voting or have voted recently for European parliament members. Given your seeming confusion about your own currency, how informed was your vote?


Bill

 

[Jimbrock]

But neither Monaco nor Vatican are.

Did I mention Monaco and the Vatican?

Please read the post before answering.

.

Jim

 

[fhaessig]

Glancing at your profile, I see that you're from Holland which makes your post rather odd. Why does it seem that you understand the mechanisms behind your own currency?

Maybe because I do understand.

The EU nations are voting or have voted recently for European parliament members. Given your seeming confusion about your own currency, how informed was your vote?


Bill

If personnal attacks are the ultimate argument you have, then your case is rather weak.

Mine is that there are countries which have adopted euro as official currency without being part of the EU and that euro is official currency in some places outside of geographical europe. So, even if there are specificities which explain the current situation, the objections based upon these are not absolute and the precedent could be extended to explain another exception which streches the guidelines even further.

So while I don't think an Independent Quebec would adopt euro, I don't think a rejection from EU side ( if quebec would even inquire, which I find ASB, personnally ) would be based on EU membership or geographical reasons.

 

[fhaessig]

Did I mention Monaco and the Vatican?

No, but you answered to the point I made with these exemple as if I had mentioned Malta instead.

 

[Jimbrock]

No, but you answered to the point I made with these exemple as if I had mentioned Malta instead.

You did mention Malta. Anyway never mind, forget it. Point is, even if quebec would want to join euro, they wouldnt be allowed to.

Jim

 

[Bill Cameron]

If personnal attacks are the ultimate argument you have, then your case is rather weak.

fhaessig,

That wasn't a personal attack. It was a serious question.

Given you little tit-for-tat with Jimbrock in this thread, I wouldn't be talking about personal attacks either.

Mine is that there are countries which have adopted euro as official currency without being part of the EU...

I'll explain to you again that those nations are in fact microstates who are surrounded by EU members and have economies that cannot effect the EU. Allowing San Marino, Monaco, and the Vatican to adopt the euro and print euro coins is in no way similar to what real nations have had to do to be allowed to adopt the euro.

... and that euro is official currency in some places outside of geographical europe.

The only place outside of geographical Europe that officially uses the euro is Guyana, a department of France. As a department of a member nation, Guyana needn't be part of geographical Europe because it legally part of Europe. As part of France, Guyana didn't adopt the euro anymore than New York adopted the Federal Reserve note after that legislation was passed. When the nation of France adopted the euro, her department of Guyana began using it automatically.

You're taking an odd situation created by a leftover colony and stretching it all out of proportion.

So, even if there are specificities which explain the current situation, the objections based upon these are not absolute and the precedent could be extended to explain another exception which streches the guidelines even further.

The only exceptions concern microstates. Guyana is legally part of France and holds the same status within France as Normandy. By your logic, Hawaii is an exception to US governance because it isn't part of geographical North America.

So while I don't think an Independent Quebec would adopt euro, I don't think a rejection from EU side ( if quebec would even inquire, which I find ASB, personnally ) would be based on EU membership or geographical reasons.

A rejection from the EU side would be based on the fact that all euro adopters - apart from three microstates - have signed on to a bewildering number of treaties, pacts, and understandings all of which Quebec is no party to.

Your argument makes no sense whatsoever because the exceptions you keep bringing up aren't really exceptions at all.


Bill

 

[Coyote Knight]

Malta and french guyana, among others, use Euro.

So geographical criteria are not absolute.

Monaco and Vatican uses Euro.

So it's not necessary to be part of Euro group or even EU to use Euro.

First off, French Guyana is actually part of France. That's why they use it. Monaco and the Vatican are also part of Europe, so what would you expect?

 

[Coyote Knight]

But neither Monaco nor Vatican are.

Please read the post before answering

Granted, while they are not part of the EU officially, the EU directly affects them and as such they all have a special and unique relationship with the EU.

 

[Coyote Knight]

fhaessig,

That wasn't a personal attack. It was a serious question.

Given you little tit-for-tat with Jimbrock in this thread, I wouldn't be talking about personal attacks either.



I'll explain to you again that those nations are in fact microstates who are surrounded by EU members and have economies that cannot effect the EU. Allowing San Marino, Monaco, and the Vatican to adopt the euro and print euro coins is in no way similar to what real nations have had to do to be allowed to adopt the euro.



The only place outside of geographical Europe that officially uses the euro is Guyana, a department of France. As a department of a member nation, Guyana needn't be part of geographical Europe because it legally part of Europe. As part of France, Guyana didn't adopt the euro anymore than New York adopted the Federal Reserve note after that legislation was passed. When the nation of France adopted the euro, her department of Guyana began using it automatically.

You're taking an odd situation created by a leftover colony and stretching it all out of proportion.



The only exceptions concern microstates. Guyana is legally part of France and holds the same status within France as Normandy. By your logic, Hawaii is an exception to US governance because it isn't part of geographical North America.



A rejection from the EU side would be based on the fact that all euro adopters - apart from three microstates - have signed on to a bewildering number of treaties, pacts, and understandings all of which Quebec is no party to.

Your argument makes no sense whatsoever because the exceptions you keep bringing up aren't really exceptions at all.


Bill

*applauds*