Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond

[EnglishCanuck]

......like, what?
McClellan thinks he can negotiate the Confederacy back into the Union?

McClellan, still not quite living in the same world because he knows better. Though weirdly enough, up to the Fall of Atlanta in 1864, he did hold that he would support an armistice but solely on the condition of the negotiation for reunion (great article by Charles R. Wilson on the matter, McClellan's Changing Views on the Peace Plank of 1864). He was, like many contemporaries, unsure of whether the war could be won in a reasonable timeframe after four years of bloodshed, and if he won he wasn't willing to take ownership of the final bloodshed if it could be avoided, but also because he had to offer something to the Copperheads. So there was always a chance he would movw for an armistice if he thought the military situation unfavorable. OTL he would have been happy to win the election and take credit for the end of the war, which was coming anyways, but he was going to do everything he could to stifle the Radical vision of Reconstruction. He seemed to earnestly believe that there was a chance the South might see sense, but was prepared to continue the war to its conclusion.

Here in Wrapped in Flames, he is starting to draw the wrong conclusions. As I'll explain more in Chapters 108 and 109, he's seeing the soldiers hostility to him as hostility to the war (he couldn't possibly be the cause of course!). So seeing this, he thinks that perhaps the best way to win is at the negotiating table, hence his rough status quo antebellum offer, which he really should know better than after 4 years of war, and with the Confederacy doing better, is never gonna be accepted. Its not a realistic solution, but McClellan hopes it is, because looking at a map there's still years of bloodletting and grinding campaigning to come.

Of course, his upcoming plan does have merit. A conference of all the states will mean all of them, and there are more loyal than rebel states. And if they vote for no peace but reunification, McClellan can sell continuing the war because the Confederacy refuses to negotiate in good faith. But he's dealing with a wing of the party that does have peace at any price in mind, while he's not a Copperhead, he doesn't totally command their allegiance either. There's a lot of opposition to this plan domestically, and McClellan is not a politician, he really does think his directives will be carried out to the letter.

 

[DarkAvenger]

From the way you describe it, it does seem that McClellan is on the fast track to the Union losing the war and the South becoming independent. I also remember Napoleon III wanting to mediate peace in a previous post and given McClellan's disinterest in foreign affairs, that might blindside his effort in a conference. In my opinion, if he is drawing the wrong conclusions here, he probably will for the Army as well and mismanage it and make its efficiency and effectiveness even worse than before

But on the other hand, he might start learning the right lessons as President (whether deliberate or accidental) and might surprise us down the line. Who knows, maybe he somehow manages to win the Civil War while still being controversial enough that he is considered neither the worst nor best President. From what little I have researched on McClellan, he seems to have an abrasive personality but he did not strike me as incompetent either. I dunno, I could be wrong about that and someone more informed than me can give a much fairer assessment.

I am looking forward to seeing how a conference of all states (which I believe includes the Southern States) after four years of bloodletting will look. Tensions will definitely be high there and I wonder how the shoe would drop.

Note: TIL that McClellan actually said 'I can do it all' when he was army commander and general-in-chief.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

From the way you describe it, it does seem that McClellan is on the fast track to the Union losing the war and the South becoming independent. I also remember Napoleon III wanting to mediate peace in a previous post and given McClellan's disinterest in foreign affairs, that might blindside his effort in a conference. In my opinion, if he is drawing the wrong conclusions here, he probably will for the Army as well and mismanage it and make its efficiency and effectiveness even worse than before

In politics and foreign affairs, he does not have any particular instinct on the matters. He was very much not a political animal, and was Democrat by inclination, but had only run in Democratic leaning social circles prior to the war, and then allowed himself to be puffed up by the Democratic presses. He always maintained that there was no personal motivation when he ran for president in 1864 OTL, but he would have to have been almost willfully naïve to see he was not extremely attractive as a foil to the Lincoln administration both in terms of politics and the grand strategy he espoused which would have been markedly different and way more forgiving of the South.

With his ascension to the presidency here, he is discovering that Lincoln indeed had a very difficult challenge starting February 1862 with the British intervention into the war and even their withdrawal now has complications with the stipulations of the Treaty of Rotterdam now his responsibility. His lack of appreciation for foreign affairs may indeed bite him in the ass.

On the military front, he would actually be a more positive since he was, as an administrator and organizer, not a bungling incompetent. He performed adequately when he held command OTL (and even his work in keeping the Army of the Potomac together during the Maryland Campaign and in the Siege of Washington is a credit in Wrapped in Flames) but he faces a daunting task nonetheless.

But on the other hand, he might start learning the right lessons as President (whether deliberate or accidental) and might surprise us down the line. Who knows, maybe he somehow manages to win the Civil War while still being controversial enough that he is considered neither the worst nor best President. From what little I have researched on McClellan, he seems to have an abrasive personality but he did not strike me as incompetent either. I dunno, I could be wrong about that and someone more informed than me can give a much fairer assessment.

As of now the TL is into May 1865 officially, so he's only three months into his very steep learning curve. There's a lot to be learned, and he is not a politician so it remains to be seen if he can organize himself into a proper wartime leader. He won't be considered the worst president, but I can say that in WiF he's not going to be a great one in the history books either...

There's also a lagging economy, disgruntled Pacific voters, the plains on fire with war between Natives and settlers heating up, a navy in desperate need of rebuilding, and a messy international image to deal with. A Herculean task for any president!

I am looking forward to seeing how a conference of all states (which I believe includes the Southern States) after four years of bloodletting will look. Tensions will definitely be high there and I wonder how the shoe would drop.

Thank you! I hope to bring it to you soon! But first we're looking at a little pitstop by Canadians in London!

Note: TIL that McClellan actually said 'I can do it all' when he was army commander and general-in-chief.

Not quite the way it played out unfortunately.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Chapter 107: Kingdom Come​

"He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth" - Psalm 72:8

“It was a unique delegation of Canadians who crossed the Atlantic to London in May 1865. Politicians, businessmen, and military figures, the whole of Canadian upper society could be said to be represented. There were knighthoods to be granted, recognitions to be made, and more importantly, a final conference on the nature of the new Canadian state to be had. But just as importantly to many was the recognition for the role they had played in defending Canada…” – The Road to Confederation, 1863 – 1869 the Formative Years, Queens University Press, Donald Simmonds

Demobilizing Canadian Militia on the Champ de Mars, Montreal, summer 1864​

“In the immediate aftermath of the fighting in August 1864 as the last American troops left the Province of Canada and the British settled in for their occupation of a vast stretch of Maine, the Province of Canada and the Maritime colonies were at a sudden loss. The silence of the guns was met with a nation which was, in part, in ruin.

The majority of the economic damage of the war had been focused in Canada West, with battlefields and raiding forces having torn up railroads, burned farms and factories and otherwise wrecked portions of the countryside. Farms had lain fallow for over two years, while some factories had seen half their workforce killed by war. Families found painful absences at the tables, and wives, children and parents never saw their men return home. Even the people of Toronto after the Battle of Davenport Ridge, which liberated their city, were somber. Of the 4,000 men who volunteered to fight from Toronto and York County in 1862, only 1,800 would return from the war as they left, bringing a further 600 crippled comrades home.

Montreal, which had sent out just over 3,000 men to the front lines while maintaining a garrison of almost exclusively Canadians, found itself still losing 2,500 men to the war. All over Canada the sudden loss and trickle of crippled men returning home as the peace was declared was a shock as this final act landed on their doorstep…

It was the opinion of many Canadians, looking at the graves of 35,000 men, that the nation should never be so unprepared again.” - Blood and Daring: The War of 1862 and how Canada forged a Nation, Raymond Green, University of Toronto Press, 2002

Honoring the dead​

“With tracks of land empty, money needed to rebuild, and a sudden influx of workers, the post-war economy was initially sluggish. The demand for labor - especially on government contracts which had languished since 1861 - was high. The enormous military presence even after peace was declared, with 30,000 British troops remaining in Canada until 1866, meant that military contracts and soldier pay flooded the economy. The news that the government would see an annual surplus to its budget of 5 million dollars every year until 1870 increased speculation on what could be achieved. While 1864 and 1865 would be hard years as there was still little trade with the United States, the potential for the economy to grow tantalized investors north and south of the border, and on the opposite side of the Atlantic.

This monetary security gave Macdonald and his government some peace of mind in the post-war environment, but he was cautious in doing any spending which did not immediately involve repairing the economy or meeting his commitments to an intercolonial railroad. As such he was surprisingly tight fisted when paying for the government in 1865. He insisted that any true government spending could only come after the first election. Many of his critics were quick to point out that he was hesitant to give money to his potential competition. That they could not name who this competition was, was indeed indicative of how far the Great Coalition had risen from 1862 to 1865.

While cracks had shown, notably in the ranks of Haligonians and the ever troublesome rogues in Canada East, very few were rising to challenge Macdonald. The loudest critic was Joseph Howe who, while mollified by the equal representation in the Senate, he still suspected (correctly) that Macdonald would attempt to ‘pull one over’ on the provinces in London, and so was invited to come as the most respected man in Halifax. However, with his base of support largely in Nova Scotia, and diminished by the support of New Brunswick and PEI, his outrage was muted and not supported by the other bloc of opposition, the rogues.

Instead, Macdonald’s greatest developing problem came with arguments between New Brunswick and Quebec. Both claimed the whole of the annexed territory of Maine. Quebec cited ‘ancient Acadian ties’ to the land, while New Brunswick countered that through “blood sweat and tears” they had held the land against any American counterattack. The politicians of Quebec derided this as “playing at Indians,” as there had been no major battles, while the men of Quebec, Montreal, and all the villages in between had fought from Lacolle to Saratoga and Larbee’s Wood.

Once again using his great talent for delay, he meant to ensure that no group could lay exclusive claim. The boundary commission which had met in early 1865 had been painstakingly tracing a new border line, and so far had yet to submit their final conclusions. Macdonald leaned on Monck to ensure that any conclusions submitted would only be submitted at the same time the Canadian commissions went to London to hammer out the final details of the Confederation deal. He was thankfully in luck as bickering and local politics prevented the final border from being agreed upon until late May, well after the Canadians arrived in London[1]. This allowed him to wait on a judgment until the ratification of these borders by the British government…

In London, the delegates met for what promised to be the final meeting on the Confederation of Canada. Far from the prying eyes of the press. Macdonald had settled most affairs in Canada before his departure. The provincial parliament in the United Province of Canada had accepted the division of the province into two new provinces, Ontario and Quebec, and began carving out electoral districts for an election expected to take place in 1866. The Maritimes had done the same, and despite small holdouts, the plans made in 1863 and 1864 were now moving forward.

To that extent, London was largely a series of formalities. Meeting with the Colonial Secretary to affirm that Canada was to take over many of those responsibilities for self-government, and assurances that there would be support should the new domain choose to expand westwards. A meeting with the Secretary of War affirmed that the British garrison would remain in Canada, though the exact numbers were not specified. Finally a meeting with the Secretary of Foreign Affairs and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gladstone even then looking to ‘trim the fat’ of British expenditure after the war and giving gracious assurances that the moneys would come from the American indemnity, and that he would speak to the merchants of The City on their behalf to support railroad bonds, while the Foreign Secretary agreed to uphold Canada’s rights in the future negotiations outlined in the Treaty of Rotterdam on legal issues. Upon meeting with Lord Palmerston, who was an enthusiastic supporter, Macdonald and his delegates were guaranteed the Bill would pass.

The political meetings were also short, taking place at the Westminster Hotel just across from Parliament. Macdonald, in swift fashion, laid down how he expected the Senate to be chosen. Bound by agreement to allow Provincial leaders to appoint the Senate, he laid down that the Senate would change with every Federal election, as the leaders of the provinces would then select new senators, ratified by the provincial legislature. Even at the last moment Macdonald seemed to want to check this potentially ambitious power of the provincial leaders by binding them to their constituents, and perhaps thinking he could command more loyalty from local members of parliament than he could from potentially truculent provincial premiers. This would prove to be a mixed blessing for Canada.

For the Intercolonial Railway linking Halifax to Quebec, Macdonald again secured the support of London and easily mollified the Nova Scotian delegation assuring them that it “would be constructed within the decade” and not “diminish the importance of the great entrepot of British North America” which had so vexed them.

The last, but thorniest issue, was on denominational schooling. Something addressed in talks, but one which would have far reaching parochial consequences, was the discussion between the Catholic Church and the secular authorities. Such separate schools already existed in Ontario and Quebec, and the bishops in all provinces lobbied for their inclusion in this new government. As a united front however, the Maritime delegates balked. They outright refused to allow ‘papist’ institutions of learning. On difficult ground, Macdonald walked a tightrope, dangerously aware a rupture over the issue of religion might sink the whole endeavor at this late stage. Adroitly then, he suggested that due to ‘former provincial legislation’ the question should be considered settled by each legislature but ‘open to interpretation’ in other territories. This, thankfully, mollified the Quebec delegates, and the issue passed without rancor.

Finally, the Quebec Resolutions were agreed to, and the issue was passed to the Colonial Office, who duly signed off on the matter. It was then bunted to Parliament who, on July 5th 1865, Passed the British North America Act into law, merely waiting on royal assent. For all intents the Kingdom of Canada had been born[2]...

As the bill had not yet received assent, and would not go into force until Parliament’s next sitting in early 1866, the remainder of the delegates stay was made up with various royal tours and enjoying the London social life. Macdonald, alongside a delegation of other politicians and Canadian soldiers, would receive a knighthood[3]. In this they were fetted by the Prince of Wales at Buckingham Palace, dining with him in an audience of one hundred exclusive guests. “We were treated as if we were ambassadors and not mere Colonists,” Galt would write his wife gleefully.

The delegates also engaged in London social life. Many reacquainted themselves with war correspondent William Howard Russell who had been in Canada until the year prior, and he regaled them with tales of daring he had seen, comparing experiences in Crimea to those in Canada. They took in the races, which enamored many of the Canadian contingent, especially the Toronto based Denisons, ever purveyors of horseflesh. Galt described the energy of London “the sights of the course, gypsies, music, mountebacks, games of all kinds, menageries of savage animals, and shows of Irishmen disguised as savage Indians,” showing the cosmopolitan nature of the worlds’ largest city. Macdonald and Brown, in a rare show of comradery, even watched the opera Lucrezia Borgia together…

In an unexpected event, which would have ramifications on Canadian politics long after, while Brown was touring England with old acquaintances he would become re-acquainted with the woman who would become his wife[4]. Anne Nelson was the sister of his friends William and Thomas Nelson from the High School. Normally known as ‘cheerless and severe’ the witty, well cultured and amiable Anne would smooth off her husbands rougher edges, and in time lead him to a future political career in opposition to his former ally Macdonald…” – The Road to Confederation, 1863 – 1869 the Formative Years, Queens University Press, Donald Simmonds

-----

1] Tentatively the border runs roughly like this: All of Aroostook County, and then pieces of Washington County following through what is modern Downeast Lakes Community Forest, roughly along the banks of West Grand Lake, then a rough course south until you hit Wesley, Maine, then along modern Highway 192, then veering along Bog Lake to Hadley Lake and into Machias Bay.

Spoiler: Rough Maine Border

2] TTL where Britain is less worried about offending the United States, and there is a real sense of being distinct from both the republican government of the United States, and not any real urge to look like the Confederacy, Macdonald’s hope for a “Kingdom of Canada” is so born, beating out other names like Tuponia, Norland, Hochelagea, Aquilonia and Colonia which were also thrown around.

3] A collection of ‘sirs’ will be mentioned as the story goes forward. Some names you absolutely recognize. Post war Victoria’s arm is going to be very tired from doling out knighthoods.

4] A minor detail, but he did meet and marry her three years earlier OTL. That actually softened his rougher edges quite a bit, making Confederation easier. Here the exigencies of war did it, but he remains an implacable foe of Macdonald. His upcoming marriage and honeymoon will take him away from Canadian politics at a rather pivotal moment.

 

[MonarchistCanuck]

"Kingdom" of Canada, my heart beats with joy! Now just give us Alaska in addition to Western Canada...

 

[EnglishCanuck]

"Kingdom" of Canada, my heart beats with joy! Now just give us Alaska in addition to Western Canada...

I had waffled on this for a long time. However, upon reading how much John A liked the idea, and how it was largely blocked by a desire to not disturb US public opinion, I figured that it would be acceptable to London in WiF. However, it's still a subordinate kingdom to the British Crown and the Canadian hopes to have a Viceroy rather than a Governor General are going to be dashed. There's only so far Britain will bend on the issue.

 

[username5243]

"Kingdom" of Canada, my heart beats with joy! Now just give us Alaska in addition to Western Canada...

*gags in proud American* Our country is going to be bordered by a kingdom, an empire, and a bunch of slavers. Great. Just great.

You already have way too much near-empty frozen land and you want MORE?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

*gags in proud American* Our country is going to be bordered by a kingdom, an empire, and a bunch of slavers. Great. Just great.

You already have way too much near-empty frozen land and you want MORE?

The borders of North America will be... interesting let me just say. Anyone from OTL will end up looking at the WiF world map in extreme confusion come 1900...

 

[MonarchistCanuck]

*gags in proud American* Our country is going to be bordered by a kingdom, an empire, and a bunch of slavers. Great. Just great.

You already have way too much near-empty frozen land and you want MORE?

Canadians will always want more frozen land, nay we demand ALL of it. It makes the map look prettier and inflates our ego, besides if there's one thing Anchorage desperately needs is a Tim Hortons 😀

 

[HMS St.Lawrence]

Families found painful absences at the tables, and wives, children and parents never saw their men return home.

Immediately thought of that early chapter and of the Fulfords. I suspect this Canada is going to suffer from a generational trauma, likely completely changing the dynamic of how the army is perceived (as well as the southern neighbours). I mean, Canada won... but at what cost? For the size of the population at that time, those numbers are not insignificant.

Speaking of 'Canada', it might not be obvious at first glance for the non-Canadian readers but this alternate Kingdom of Canada, although on the surface might look like the OTL nation that took form in 1867, really isn't. The Senate modifications will have enormous consequences in the next decades and the extra power handed to the province will bring about a totally different dynamic in Federal politics. Not to mention that this union has been forged in the blood of the people, English and French speaking Canadians, from Ontario to the Maritimes have fought and died side by side defending their homeland. We often reffer to the War of 1812 as a landmark of the making of the Canadian nationhood, but this is nation-building on steroids.

I will also end by making a prediction: the scale of the British intervention will have a long-lasting effet. Britain answered the call and came to the rescue, British men fought and died on 'colonial' soil. Canadians will remember that. The whole Empire will likely remember that.

 

[The Gunslinger]

The political meetings were also short, taking place at the Westminster Hotel just across from Parliament. Macdonald, in swift fashion, laid down how he expected the Senate to be chosen. Bound by agreement to allow Provincial leaders to appoint the Senate, he laid down that the Senate would change with every Federal election, as the leaders of the provinces would then select new senators, ratified by the provincial legislature. Even at the last moment Macdonald seemed to want to check this potentially ambitious power of the provincial leaders by binding them to their constituents, and perhaps thinking he could command more loyalty from local members of parliament than he could from potentially truculent provincial premiers. This would prove to be a mixed blessing for Canada.

Macdonald got outmaneuvered on the senate and just won't let it go, lol

In an unexpected event, which would have ramifications on Canadian politics long after, while Brown was touring England with old acquaintances he would become re-acquainted with the woman who would become his wife[4]. Anne Nelson was the sister of his friends William and Thomas Nelson from the High School. Normally known as ‘cheerless and severe’ the witty, well cultured and amiable Anne would smooth off her husbands rougher edges, and in time lead him to a future political career in opposition to his former ally Macdonald…”

This is actually pretty big imo, it always seemed to me that the opposition to Macdonald was super lackluster for most of his tenure.

However, it's still a subordinate kingdom to the British Crown and the Canadian hopes to have a Viceroy rather than a Governor General are going to be dashed. There's only so far Britain will bend on the issue.

Only so far, until Queen Victoria's son becomes a popular and competent GG and contender for an actual crown. Many years in the future mind you, but still fun to think about as a possibility. Victoria had a bunch of kids and I'd be surprised if one of them didn't angle for an actual crown.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Immediately thought of that early chapter and of the Fulfords. I suspect this Canada is going to suffer from a generational trauma, likely completely changing the dynamic of how the army is perceived (as well as the southern neighbours). I mean, Canada won... but at what cost? For the size of the population at that time, those numbers are not insignificant.

There's a huge well of grief and anger in Canada regarding a war that they (justifiably) feel they did not start and were dragged into. Post war in Wrapped in Flames there will be a feeling of "they've tried to invade us three times, and we must be ready for a fourth" which will lead to a much more militant population that OTL. Given the casualties (roughly 1 in every 100 people in all of British North America in 1861) there's lots of bitterness towards the United States. The Canadians were a bit lackadaisical in how they saw military service not in times of emergency, but here that will change. People like the Denisons will be viewed much more favorably than they were OTL because of their commitment to military excellence. When one considers how many of the propertied classes volunteer for militia service, and then how many soldiers might get tracts of land that were lost, and that over 150,000 men served in one fashion or another, looks like a large voting bloc that could form.

Amusingly, this popular sentiment will really stick in Macdonald's craw, as he believed that there should never be a thing as a "profession of arms" while he leads Canada. How that will play out is another matter...

Speaking of 'Canada', it might not be obvious at first glance for the non-Canadian readers but this alternate Kingdom of Canada, although on the surface might look like the OTL nation that took form in 1867, really isn't. The Senate modifications will have enormous consequences in the next decades and the extra power handed to the province will bring about a totally different dynamic in Federal politics. Not to mention that this union has been forged in the blood of the people, English and French speaking Canadians, from Ontario to the Maritimes have fought and died side by side defending their homeland. We often reffer to the War of 1812 as a landmark of the making of the Canadian nationhood, but this is nation-building on steroids.

Oh boy is it! The Senate redistribution alone is going to be huge. The Maritimes are not going to simply be ignored, and Macdonald may find himself making strange allies as he tried to reel in the provinces...

The War of 1812 on steroids is absolutely correct. Men fought and died together from New York to Maine and in Canada itself, they were from all regions and walks of life. More than anything else (save OTL's Vimy Ridge) this is a feeling of unity shared by many Canadians. Its also about the most "we don't want to be American" expression that you can get which will be mostly well spelled out to the annexationists of the US who are going to have different problems in the near future. The real undercurrent of anti-American sentiment which ran in Canadian politics OTL will be right up front going forward in WiF.

I will also end by making a prediction: the scale of the British intervention will have a long-lasting effet. Britain answered the call and came to the rescue, British men fought and died on 'colonial' soil. Canadians will remember that. The whole Empire will likely remember that.

Remembered in both a good and a bad fashion I assure you. Colonials will believe Britain will protect its empire (and so will her enemies), but with the cost in blood and treasure, well, there's a faction called Little Englanders who might have some different ideas about empire going forward!

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Macdonald got outmaneuvered on the senate and just won't let it go, lol

One failing of Macdonald is that he didn't really accept losing. He might retire from a defeat gracefully, but he always came back looking for another go in one way or another. There's both something admirable and infuriating in that.

This is actually pretty big imo, it always seemed to me that the opposition to Macdonald was super lackluster for most of his tenure.

Macdonald did only suffer a defeat because someone leaked his correspondence and he got turfed through scandal, but that didn't stop him at all. His opponents were, as you say, pretty lackluster in political charisma, or even cunning. So his running was always a bit like watching an elephant step on an unfortunate animal.

However, with someone who is a foe of Macdonald's and now has the political charisma and alliance to go toe to toe with him in the future? Well, Macdonald may be in a fight for his life later in his career!

Only so far, until Queen Victoria's son becomes a popular and competent GG and contender for an actual crown. Many years in the future mind you, but still fun to think about as a possibility. Victoria had a bunch of kids and I'd be surprised if one of them didn't angle for an actual crown.

There is one who fell in love with Canada that I had in mind...

 

[generalurist]

The borders of North America will be... interesting let me just say. Anyone from OTL will end up looking at the WiF world map in extreme confusion come 1900...

Well that is interesting, it suggests there's more twists coming than just Canadian Alaska and an independent CSA.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Well that is interesting, it suggests there's more twists coming than just Canadian Alaska and an independent CSA.

In nigh on a decade of research I have made some startling stumbles down rabbit holes that I definitely didn't expect.

The original vision of TTL, from when I first started writing it as a simple "what if enough provocation led to war between the US and Great Britain in 1862, and it wouldn't be over in a year" to a much broader exploration of the world and well... you'll see!

 

[TimTurner]

In nigh on a decade of research I have made some startling stumbles down rabbit holes that I definitely didn't expect.

The original vision of TTL, from when I first started writing it as a simple "what if enough provocation led to war between the US and Great Britain in 1862, and it wouldn't be over in a year" to a much broader exploration of the world and well... you'll see!

Sounds fascinating.

 

[The Gunslinger]

Just a small question. Not sure if I missed it or not. Since the war broke out during the short life of the Stikeen Territory and Vancouver Island colony, did they both get subsumed into British Columbia as per OTL?

 

[HMS St.Lawrence]

there's a faction called Little Englanders who might have some different ideas about empire going forward

So we're going to hear about Goldwin Smith.

Oh well, I guess every country has its narrow-minded folks...

 

[nemo1986]

This also going to make the US invest a lot more in their military.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

So we're going to hear about Goldwin Smith.

He has not been a popular man from about 1862-64, his abolitionist sympathies aside. Pro-Union leanings were not looked well upon in London.

Oh well, I guess every country has its narrow-minded folks...

Unfortunately.