Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond
- Thread starter EnglishCanuck
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The Fenians remain one of my favorite obscure historical groups.
Invade Canada + ???? = Free Ireland
How they imagined a thousand guys were going to conquer the country is also beyond me.
But given the OTL successes of the Irish Brigade, I can see the thought process behind an attempted raid. Not that it would do them any good.
It will be interesting to see how you handle this one!
The Fenians were just so interesting in their ideas I find them hard to ignore (my bias aside).
The Emergency of 1867 will have a lot of members of the Irish Brigade returning north that much I can tell you! And sadly some of them will not know how to discontinue the fight into the future!
Chapter 114: Lessons Learned Part II
Chapter 114: Lessons Learned Part II
“The War of 1862 was the largest war Britain had fought in North America since 1812, the rebellions of 1837-38 notwithstanding. The number of troops involved was similar to that of the Crimean War or the Indian Mutiny, and yet, in the immediate aftermath the politicians in Britain did not seem predisposed to treat it as the great conflict it had been. Lasting two years and with considerable expenditure of blood and treasure, it was not a small colonial conflict, but an engagement with an up and coming power which could have gone another way. However, it would only be with the advent of a new ministry which would cause Whitehall to seriously consider the problems that this victory had shown them.
“I do not regret the conflict,” the Duke of Cambridge would write. “Though heavy in lives, and some prestige, it was a valuable lesson to the World at large, and proved to all what England can and will do when the necessity for so doing arises. It also established the fact that we are not that insignificant Military Power, which some people are disposed to make out, and that the military organization of our departments is now such, that at any moment we can be, and are prepared for war, should it suddenly arise. It also proves that we have an able staff to conduct the details of a difficult operation wherever it arises.”
In truth, the war had shown that Britain had learned some lessons from both Crimea and the Indian Mutiny, where there had been much disorder and failings of the old army system. Here in the American War they had shown the value of the work they had done. A foe at a distance, with a navy and an army substantially larger, had failed to take British territory, and been brought to the negotiating table by the might of the Royal Navy.
“The world now knows we will unhesitatingly deliver our fire wherever the flag of Britain is offended with unrelenting might and valor,” Lord Clarendon would write haughtily after the Treaty of Rotterdam had been signed.
Many military minds felt slightly differently from the politicians and the Duke of Cambridge. “How great was our campaign that we could defend out territory, but hardly carry the war but a days march from the enemies coast?” Patrick Grant would write. The experience of slogging overland through New York was a sobering one, even despite his service in India. “Surely the navy has reason to be happy, but the army has suffered tremendously to merely be seen as riding the navy’s coattails.”
Wolseley would have a different opinion writing in 1868. “Suppose some crisis had come along in which we were compelled to respond? The greatest proportion of Her Majesty’s Troops were deployed in America, if France had decided to engage in some mischief on the Rhine, or the Chinese to again dishonor the flag we would have been poorly placed to chastise either.” This would inform much of his own actions when in Canada and in his future career.
Indeed, the lesson most in Whitehall and the Horse Guards seemed to take from the war was that Britain could back up her high handed rhetoric with unrelenting might. However, there were objectors.
“A great divestment of treasure and an embarrassing loss of shipping…outrages to our colonies, which further drain the Treasury, and a now cocksure Army which thinks too highly of itself by far,” Gladstone would lament. “The only outcome has been the cleavage of America and at least the establishment of paying debtors to our nation.” Gladstone’s opinion of the war to ‘save’ Canada was low, but he was much irritated by the cost of defending Britain’s far flung colonies in general. He openly lamented the ‘now assured’ belief from other Colonies that Britain might defend them from their own misadventures.
His future foe Disraeli leapt to the opposite conclusion, speaking before Parliament when the vote was taken on the Treaty of Rotterdam he proclaimed, “Noble sirs, we have faced a challenge where our honour was assailed, our empire endangered. However, England has risen in the magnificence of her might, and struggled triumphantly for those objects for which men live and nations flourish. We have demonstrated, as the Prime Minister himself has stated, that the honor of England is sacrosanct and he protection of Her Citizens is essential to all. A man may walk abroad and when in trouble declare ‘I am a citizen of Britain’ and find himself unmolested. That shall be the legacy of this conflict.”
While for some the war represented the cost of empire, for others it was its justification, an argument which would play out again and again even before the decade was done…” - The World on Fire: The Third Anlgo-American War, Ashley Grimes, 2009, Random House Publishing
“When the war had ended in 1864, Macdonald had been swift in demobilizing all but 10,000 militiamen on duty. While this had appalled the British military, the financial case for sending many of the men in the ranks home was inescapable as keeping over 60,000 men under arms cost the cash strapped colonial administration an astronomical sum which, even mostly underwritten by Britain, was not something the young Canadian nation could afford. Even so, Macdonald was soon pushing to send all the citizen soldiers home, believing the war was done and the duty of garrisoning Canada could be safely returned to the British.
Despite the financial arguments, even some in his cabinet were wary of ‘beating our swords into plowshares’ despite the victory. Potential unrest still existed on the border, and a mere short time after the London Conference in 1865 would prove that there were still threats in the immediate future.
“I am satisfied that England will be willing to come to our aid should the Yankee invade,” Macdonald would write Cartier in late 1865. “The willingness of our citizens to leap to arms and the means with which to arm them are all guaranteed by England, why must we indebt ourselves to make a profession of arms in a nation still growing?”
In response, a growing movement would spring up for a “Canada First” movement when it came to defending the nation. “It is madness for us to meekly lay down our slings when the Goliath to our south is unrepentant and angry,” George Denison III would write in 1866. “The events of the war have shown us that “preparedness” must be our watchword, and every man must keep his musket close and his powder dry.” Macdonald’s willingness to be so blithely out of touch with the prevailing post-war sentiment would play a leading role in his bitter backtracking of 1867…” - Nation Maker: The Life of John A. Macdonald, Richard Chartrand, Queens University Publishing, 2005
After the War of 1862, militia service was seen as a source of pride and civic duty in Canada
“In 1865, just before Confederation, the Toronto Globe would write: “This is what the Americans have done for Canada:
- They have drawn the parent country and her North American colonies into closer mutual sympathy and affection.
- They have banded the British American provinces more closely together by a sense of common danger and a desire for mutual cooperation and defence.
- They have consequently greatly promoted the Confederation scheme.
- They have elicited a triumphant display of loyalty and courage of the inhabitants of the two Canadas, who have sprung to arms to defend their country with promptitude and energy never surpassed
The war had, in effect, crystalized the feeling of distinctness between Canadians and Americans. Canadians would pride themselves as a martial people, taking up arms only to defend their hearths, homes and rights as British subjects. By contrast, they would paint Americans as ‘invaders, murderers and subjugators…of the lowest sort since Atilla’ who only knew the speech of violence. It was in that contrast that the militant nature of the old stock Loyalists would lead to the Canada First party.
As a political group, it was bound around the post-war veterans associations. Primarily the Volunteer Rifle Associations (VRA) which had existed to make subscriptions for the provisioning of funds for volunteer companies. Now they would serve a dual purpose. Firstly they were organizations which would support former comrades in arms, or their dependents, through donations and act to keep an esprit de corps amongst the veterans. Secondly, they would be the impetus for the militia as an organization, creating a potent political bloc.
Primarily this was to ensure that the threadbare spending on defence that existed prior to 1862 was never allowed to happen again. True, many men would use it as a springboard to political positions and comfortable salaries to “do nothing” as many would accuse the colonels of various districts. However, much did come from the real fear that if the militia were allowed to wither away, it would be impotent in the face of another American invasion. As such, despite the cost, the government of the day would face pressure to build armories and have a great stock of weapons on hand. No more could inferior guns be allowed to proliferate amongst the ranks of the Volunteers, and no more could they be allowed to be idle when crisis threatened.
Events even shortly after the creation of the Kingdom showed that the need for military force was close at hand…” - Canada At War 1812-1916, Paul Woods, York University, 1989
Let me guess, Metis people will rebel after the authorities disregard the informal treaty they made during the war... or they will be deployed to New Zealand, with, in my opinion, the first one being much more likely.
Given Canada was engaged in conflicts even in 1916, it seems the US went to war with the British Empire again during the Great War. I can't imagine the British being neutral in that conflict.
Alternatively, as SultanArda states, Canadian soldiers are engaged in distant future colonial conflicts even amidst the Great War and Britain remains neutral which allows them to come out on top of everyone by not fighting in a destructive war. I also guess the Great War ended in 1916 given the date.
One more thing I want to state but given some of the titles here, I am becoming more convinced that the British Empire in some form becomes the global superpower come the mid-20th century.
EDIT: I just wrote this on a whim last night and judging from the likes, I guessed right?
Alternatively, as SultanArda states, Canadian soldiers are engaged in distant future colonial conflicts even amidst the Great War and Britain remains neutral which allows them to come out on top of everyone by not fighting in a destructive war. I also guess the Great War ended in 1916 given the date.
One more thing I want to state but given some of the titles here, I am becoming more convinced that the British Empire in some form becomes the global superpower come the mid-20th century.
EDIT: I just wrote this on a whim last night and judging from the likes, I guessed right?
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And i would think that despite there being no Franco-Prussian war, Prussia and its small hangers on (time will tell if they can convince Saxony and Hannover to join into an NGF) would be the go to tool to keep balance on the continent with them both being directly in the way if France gets ambitions of the "natural borders" kind and sharing a border with Russia if the Tzar gets any big ideas. Atleast thats what seems reasonable to me.
The Metis are going to have Thoughts on the future Canadian purchase of their territory without consultation.
For that matter, so will the Fenians...
I'm curious what'll happen with Japan, Commadore Perry already came over with the Fleet, so the Meji Revolution is probably already well under way.
Oh yes. Even with outside immigration, the Canadian identity will be tied to the Mother Country for quite a while in the immediate future and early 20th century.
There will be a significant internal debate regarding the British 100th Regiment of Foot in the near future.
Historically, Wolseley himself practically fell in love with the colonial Canadian soldiers during his stay in Canada and in his memoirs said that in any future conflicts the British should muster a division of them under their own officers for services (this of course partially coming true in OTL). He even picked Canadians to support him in an expedition up the Nile.
In WiF, the Canadians will absolutely play a part in any future wars Britain finds herself in. The Great War included.
How though shall for now remain a mystery 😉
A global power of great influence, but not the only one. We are not heading towards a world with a single super power.
A classic example of "best" being the enemy of "good enough" IIRC - if he'd gone with what he had instead of demanding the experts he might have reached Khartoum in time to relieve Gordon.
@EnglishCanuck What are the top ten economically ITTL's 2023? Or is that question asking for thoughts youve yet to have anything to say about atm? (If it is a spoiler thing, I get it, though I'm thinking the top ten shouldn't be too different than OTL anyway aside from order)
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Dreadnought by Massie is a great book
One of my favorites of the period! I'm due for a reread!
Let's just say Saxony is going to have reasons to be mildly anti-Prussian for a while. However, the forming of a North German Confederation is still in the cards. Bismarck is trying to slow trot to a united Germany sans-Austria, and with the 1864 war with Denmark and Sweden done, he has his plans for a casus-belli against Austria still forming. There's going to be a push, a mighty push, for a united Germany, but perhaps he'll push too far...
Japanese history is a favorite of mine, so thus far it has been going roughly (very roughly) as OTL. There's some room for change, and we will see some differences even in the 1860s, but the Shogunate is still on its way out!
I look forward to exploring the other changes!
That one I'm not 100% sure on, I'm not as much of an expert on his later career (yet). Beyond some surface knowledge I don't know enough about poor old Gordon in Sudan. Hawaii Gordon will have a different life in WiF!
Oh man 2023 is well beyond where even the rough notes for Wrapped in Flames are at right now! I'm mapped out to the 1930s, maybe. But I can give you the biggest economies in 1870 without major spoilers!
- China (Not the Qing)
- India (British Raj)
- Britain - so technically Britain is in the #1 spot but its counted differently
- Russian Empire
- United States
- France
- North German Confederation
- Italy
- Japan
- Spain
funny story I thought this was the list for 2023! and wrote up a whole question about it.