We should not confuse 1830 with 1920 here. The patriarchate had long reconciled itself with Athens by then and had pretty close ties with it, hardly odd when it was for every practical purpose Greek in nature. In such terms it was hardly odd that the church of Greece not at all accidentally did NOT have an archbishop, till after the Asia Minor disaster and the bishop of Athens was just presiding over the holy synod. I think it's a fair guess that if Greece had come to directly control Constantinople the church would had gotten reabsorbed. ATL you also have the minor complication of Crete being her own separate archdiocese.
Pride Goes Before a Fall: A Revolutionary Greece Timeline
- Thread starter Earl Marshal
- Start date
We should not confuse 1830 with 1920 here. The patriarchate had long reconciled itself with Athens by then and had pretty close ties with it, hardly odd when it was for every practical purpose Greek in nature. In such terms it was hardly odd that the church of Greece not at all accidentally did NOT have an archbishop, till after the Asia Minor disaster and the bishop of Athens was just presiding over the holy synod. I think it's a fair guess that if Greece had come to directly control Constantinople the church would had gotten reabsorbed. ATL you also have the minor complication of Crete being her own separate archdiocese.
Direct suffrage at local level and delegation to the national Parliament was the system chosen by Tanzimat Ottomans to start exprimenting with representative government. Tsar Alexander's reforms towards people's enfrachisement began at local level too (zemtsvo)....and the first steps in post-Metternich Austria parlamentarism were similar.
OTOH, Kapodistrias had clear autocratic leanings: he thought giving democracy to the Greek people was just like giving a razor to a child: as unnecesary as dangerous.
I think democracy will take root in OTL Greece, but step by step, at a more 'british' (and safer) pace
Let me point to the electoral law of Kapodistrias (March 4, 1829 ATL) which decreed the "universal suffrage of all males over 25 years in age". Not in the least accidentally when the 1843 revolution forced on Otto a constitution (which the regency had managed to avoid a decade earlier, thanks to the anarchy after Kapodistrias death) they just used it as the standing electoral law for the national assembly election since it had not been rescinded in the intervening years. When finally replaced in 1844 the replacement was not any different "the right to vote had all males, born in the kingdom over 25 years old that has ANY (emphasis mine) assets movable or landed or have any kind of work within the province where they are to vote" That's actually slightly more restrictive than than the 1829 law but still amounts to universal make suffrage unless you are a beggar and needless to say is far more liberal than France or Britain of the time.
I don't see why the TTL Greece which is at the moment avoiding the Bavarian imposed absolute monarchy interregnum (Leopold has accepted the "hegemonic" constitution drafted by Kapodistrias that's quite influenced by the US constitution like the 1827 I understand) will be doing anything different. To be a cynic leaving aside liberalism the most important reason of universal suffrage was to assuage the common belief of the average Greek that the others might be more rich, read or whatever but that hardly means they are his betters. So why should the village priest vote and I shouln't?
While Kapodistrias had his autocratic tendencies, he was almost certainly a man of the people and would support universal suffrage eventually. What I'll probably end up doing is grant the people universal suffrage but delay elections until the Government is fully established and the country has generally recovered from the war. At that point say around the later half of the 1830's/early 1840's some of the more liberal institutions can be phased in gradually.
Chapter 35: Valor and Great Matters
Chapter 35: Valor and Great Matters
The Hellenic Military
Of all the expenses of the Greek Government, the military was by far the largest and for good reason as it had just finished a long and devastating war with the Ottoman Empire. Owing to their extensive maritime and land border, along with the historical animosity shared between them, it was likely that another conflict between the two would take place sometime in the future. The Ottomans could easily field hundreds of thousands of soldiers in times of war, well beyond 400,000 men, while the Greeks could manage maybe a quarter of that number and only under extreme measures. Despite this advantage in raw manpower, the Ottomans only ever dispatched 80,000 to Greece at any one time because of Greek naval superiority, which trapped most of the Ottoman soldiers across the sea in Anatolia, and other more existential threats to the East and North, like the wars with Persia and Russia. Still, even with a faction of the total forces available to them, the Ottomans regularly outnumbered the Greeks over the course of the war up until the final year of the conflict.
The Greeks had proven themselves to be capable fighters and proficient sailors during the war, yet most realized that should they find themselves in another war against the Ottomans alone, their options would be limited. The Greeks would likely be forced onto the defensive on land and be heavily reliant upon the success of their navy to prevent the Ottomans from crossing into Greece by sea. For Greece to survive it was pertinent that they retain good relations with the Powers, specifically Russia and Great Britain, seek potential allies, and expand their military as much as possible given the current economic and demographic state of the country. To that end, Leopold appointed the British Philhellene Sir Richard Church as his Minister of the Army, the Greek Admiral Andreas Miaoulis as his Minister of the Navy, the Greek Strategos Demetrios Ypsilantis as Chief of the Army General Staff, and the Greek Admiral Constantine Kanaris as Chief of the Navy and tasked the four with the express goals of formulating an appropriate strategy for the Hellenic Military in the event of war with the Ottoman Empire. Returning with their findings in early June, the four made their report.
Sir Richard Church circa 1813
The Greek Military at the end of the War for Independence in 1830 stood at roughly 30,000 men under arms in both the Army and Navy, with roughly 18,000 soldiers officially under the Government’s authority, nearly 5,000 sailors and seamen, and another 7,000 acting as irregular militiamen or volunteers fighting of their own volition on land. Most of the Greek fighters had been infantrymen, the majority of which were light infantry at that, but there did exist a small contingent of cavalrymen and artillerymen in the Greek Army during the later stages of the conflict. The Hellenic Navy by war’s end fielded 94 ships, of which the lions share were merchant ships or smaller vessels which had been retrofitted with additional cannons and crewmen, but they were complemented by a core of powerful warships that would form the post war fleet of the Greek Navy.
Equipment was harder to determine, as it was a mishmash of muskets and rifles from various sources, makes, and models with the British Brown Bess and the French Modele 1777 corrige being the most common among the regular forces. Swords and knifes were equally prominent among the Greek fighters as well, especially among the former klephts, armatolis, and kapos. Their artillery corps numbered around 180 guns of varying degrees ranging from the meager 8 pounders, of which they had 54, to the mighty 24 pounders, of which they only had 9. Somehow, they even managed to secure 6 massive 30 pounder cannons which were relegated to the fortresses surrounding Nafplion. An identifiable uniform was also a bit of an enigma for most to determine as some men wore the traditional fustanella, while the regular forces tended to wear variants of the French army uniform with a matching set of navy blue coats and trousers. It was obvious that some amount of reorganization and uniformization was required of the Army and Navy was needed, however budgetary concerns and politics delayed this process.
The Hellenic Army would be set at a nominal peace time strength of 16,000 men, divided between three active formations; the 1st Army, the Separate Island Division, and the Guard Division.[1] The 1st Army was envisioned to be a unit 10,000 strong, comprised of 2 Active Divisions a Cavalry Regiment, and an Artillery Regiment. The 1st Army was stationed along the border with the Ottoman Empire, with the 1st Division barracked in the Nome of Phocis-Phthiotis and the 2nd Division based in the Nome of Arta. Each Division would be comprised of 2 infantry brigades, comprised of 8 infantry battalions. The Separate Island Division was a unit 4,000 men strong, comprised of four infantry regiments stationed across the Aegean with two on Chios, Samos, Psara, and Icaria, and the other two on Crete. The unit was a purely defensive formation meant to protect the islands in the event of war with the Ottoman Empire.
Recruitment registries were to be established across the country to properly fill the ranks of the military through volunteers and conscripts. Volunteers and conscripts both must be above the age of 18 and no older than 30 for volunteers and 26 for conscripts. Volunteers would have the right to choose their branch of the military and their field in the military. Should the nominal number for each formation not be met through volunteers only, then conscription would be utilized to cover the shortfalls. Conscripts would be selected through a lottery by means of the national census. Both volunteers and conscripts would serve for a period of 3 years.
Soldiers of the 1st Army and Separate Island Brigade would be provided with a navy-blue uniform similar in styling to the French Army uniform, with a wool navy-blue coat, a pair of wool navy-blue trousers with scarlet red trouser stripes, a pair of light grey trousers for the summer, black shoes, and a black Shako cap along with various pins, belts, and buttons. Each infantryman would be assigned a standard issue Modele 1777 corrige, a bayonet, a gunpowder canister, and a pouch for musket balls. Infantry officers were permitted to carry a sword and a sidearm as opposed to a musket, and they could wear a cockade on their shako and golden embroidery as opposed to the white and red embroidery of a non-commissioned officer.
Standard Uniform of a Greek Soldier
The Guard Brigade, or Frourá, was essentially a bloated Regiment comprised of two infantry battalions and two cavalry battalions, giving it a nominal strength of 2,000. The Guard Brigade was to be stationed near the capital of Athens with other secondary barracks in Nafplion, Tripolitsa, and Corinth. It would serve in a ceremonial role responsible for the protection of the King and the Government, and the last line of defense in the event an enemy pierced through the primary defenses on the border. The main formations of the Guard include the 1st Evzones Battalion, the 2nd Evzones Battalion, the 1st Royal Hippeus Battalion and the 2nd Royal Hippeus Battalion. The Evzones regiments were light infantry formations comprised of former klephts and sharpshooters. Finally, the Royal Hippeus regiments were a units of light cavalry in the vein of Russian Uhlan light cavalrymen. Members of the Guard Brigade would be composed of soldiers selected from the regular units who exhibit superior proficiency of arms and fighting capability.
Cavalrymen in the regular Army units would be provided a forest green uniform with a red plastron, a czapka as opposed to a shako, and they were assigned a sabre or lance, a handgun, a gunpowder canister, and a pouch of musket balls. Members of the Royal Hippeus regiment wore the regular cavalry uniform with added embroidery and distinctive patches, their helmets would also be more ornate than the standard cavalrymen czapka. Members of the Evzones regiments were permitted to wear the traditional fustanella of a klepht and were provided with rifles, bayonets, gunpowder canisters, and bullet pouches.
The Evzones
The irregular forces, the klephts and militia, were abolished and banditry was outlawed in Greece. To prevent these men from falling into poverty, the Government gave them priority in the land auctions held after the war. Others were pulled into the regular units, while some were established as a purely honorific unit, the Royal Phalanx. They were given uniforms, ranks, weapons, and they were arranged as a garrison force far from the border with the Ottoman Empire as an unofficial battalion of the Guard Division. In addition to the 16,000-strong peace time army, efforts were also being made to establish a National Guard for Greece, the Ethnofylaki which would be initially structured for 4 infantry divisions, which would be demobilized during times of peace bringing the army to roughly 32,000 men during times of war. This unit would be comprised of volunteers, discharged soldiers, militiamen, and former klephts, armatolis, and kapos. Due to monetary concerns, the development of the National Guard was slow rolled extensively with most of the resources being directed to the Active Divisions instead and would only reach its intended strength well into the 1840’s.
The rates of pay for non-commissioned officers and officers were established: A private would receive a base salary of 40 phoenixes a month. A Corporal shall receive 48 phoenixes a month. A Sergeant shall receive 56 phoenixes a month. An Anthypolochagos (Second Lieutenant) shall receive 68 phoenixes a month. A Ypolochagos (First Lieutenant) shall receive 80 phoenixes a month. A Lochagos (Captain) shall receive 100 phoenixes a month. A Tagmatarchis (Major) shall receive 120 phoenixes a month. An Antisyntagmatarchis (Lt Colonel) shall receive 150 phoenixes a month. A Syntagmatarchis (Colonel) shall receive 180 phoenixes a month. A Taxiarchos (Brigadier General) shall receive 220 phoenixes a month. A Ypostrategos (Major General) shall receive 280 phoenixes a month. An Antistrategos (Lieutenant General) shall receive 350 phoenixes a month. Finally, a Strategos (General) shall receive 450 phoenixes a month. Bonuses could also be earned by soldiers shown to exhibit valor in battle or possess skills desirable to the army such as legal expertise or medical experience. In total, the expenditures for base salaries for the Army amounted to about 9,000,000 Phoenixes or £325,000.
The Navy also received its fair share of attention by Leopold and his Ministers. Leopold and Kapodistrias recognizing the innate numerical disparity between the Ottoman Army and the Greek Army concluded that the Navy must achieve naval superiority in any future conflict with the Ottomans, or the Greeks run the risk of a catastrophe. Any victory on land would be meaningless should the Ottomans win at sea and bring their full might to bear against the Greeks. As a result, the Hellenic Navy was to receive prioritization over the Army in terms of modernization, recruitment, and supply to ensure it was staffed with the best sailors possible, that it was equipped with the best guns possible, and that it was comprised of the best ships possible. Their objective in the event of war would be to secure the islands of the Dodecanese and the Northern Aegean, while disrupting Ottoman naval activity and defending the Greek islands.
While the official number of ships in the Hellenic Navy stood at 94, in terms of proper warships, the actual number was much lower at 31. This included 4 steamships, 2 Razeed Third Rates, 1 Fourth Rate, 2 frigates, 5 corvettes, 4 brigs, 7 sloops, and 6 gunboats. The private ships and merchant vessels were gradually mustered out of the service leaving the main fighting ships to form the majority of the Hellenic Navy. The number of sailors for these ships came in around 4,000 sailors, gunners, officers, craftsmen, and mechanics. Like the Army, they were staffed primarily through volunteers as well, although conscripts did fill a few gaps. Their pay was also on a similar scale to that of the Army’s coming in around 2,800,000 Phoenixes of £100,000 in total. Additionally, another 1.4 million Phoenixes (£50,000) went towards the maintenance and repair of the fleet each year and another 1.4 million Phoenixes went towards supplying the weaponry and munitions of the entire military of Greece.
Each branch of the military would have their own academies for the training of young officers. The Hellenic Military Academy, would be moved from Nafplion to Athens and a separate Hellenic Naval Academy would be established at Piraeus.[2] Each academy would host 40 prospective officers each year. Both the Army and the Navy would employ doctors, physicians, and engineers, the army would also employ veterinarians for the horses and pack mules. Two separate regiment of Gendarmeries would be established to serve as a policing force throughout the country under the authority of the Minister of the Army. Funds were to be established to support the widows and orphans of deceased or incapacitated soldiers and sailors who sacrificed life and limb during the War for Independence.
Next Time: To Secure a Dynasty
[1] This number will grow in the future, but for the time being it will start relatively low.
[2] The Hellenic Military Academy was established by Ioannis Kapodistrias in 1828 in the city of Nafplion. It was later moved to Aegina in 1834, then Piraeus in 1837, and finally Athens in 1854.
The Hellenic Military
Of all the expenses of the Greek Government, the military was by far the largest and for good reason as it had just finished a long and devastating war with the Ottoman Empire. Owing to their extensive maritime and land border, along with the historical animosity shared between them, it was likely that another conflict between the two would take place sometime in the future. The Ottomans could easily field hundreds of thousands of soldiers in times of war, well beyond 400,000 men, while the Greeks could manage maybe a quarter of that number and only under extreme measures. Despite this advantage in raw manpower, the Ottomans only ever dispatched 80,000 to Greece at any one time because of Greek naval superiority, which trapped most of the Ottoman soldiers across the sea in Anatolia, and other more existential threats to the East and North, like the wars with Persia and Russia. Still, even with a faction of the total forces available to them, the Ottomans regularly outnumbered the Greeks over the course of the war up until the final year of the conflict.
The Greeks had proven themselves to be capable fighters and proficient sailors during the war, yet most realized that should they find themselves in another war against the Ottomans alone, their options would be limited. The Greeks would likely be forced onto the defensive on land and be heavily reliant upon the success of their navy to prevent the Ottomans from crossing into Greece by sea. For Greece to survive it was pertinent that they retain good relations with the Powers, specifically Russia and Great Britain, seek potential allies, and expand their military as much as possible given the current economic and demographic state of the country. To that end, Leopold appointed the British Philhellene Sir Richard Church as his Minister of the Army, the Greek Admiral Andreas Miaoulis as his Minister of the Navy, the Greek Strategos Demetrios Ypsilantis as Chief of the Army General Staff, and the Greek Admiral Constantine Kanaris as Chief of the Navy and tasked the four with the express goals of formulating an appropriate strategy for the Hellenic Military in the event of war with the Ottoman Empire. Returning with their findings in early June, the four made their report.
Sir Richard Church circa 1813
The Greek Military at the end of the War for Independence in 1830 stood at roughly 30,000 men under arms in both the Army and Navy, with roughly 18,000 soldiers officially under the Government’s authority, nearly 5,000 sailors and seamen, and another 7,000 acting as irregular militiamen or volunteers fighting of their own volition on land. Most of the Greek fighters had been infantrymen, the majority of which were light infantry at that, but there did exist a small contingent of cavalrymen and artillerymen in the Greek Army during the later stages of the conflict. The Hellenic Navy by war’s end fielded 94 ships, of which the lions share were merchant ships or smaller vessels which had been retrofitted with additional cannons and crewmen, but they were complemented by a core of powerful warships that would form the post war fleet of the Greek Navy.
Equipment was harder to determine, as it was a mishmash of muskets and rifles from various sources, makes, and models with the British Brown Bess and the French Modele 1777 corrige being the most common among the regular forces. Swords and knifes were equally prominent among the Greek fighters as well, especially among the former klephts, armatolis, and kapos. Their artillery corps numbered around 180 guns of varying degrees ranging from the meager 8 pounders, of which they had 54, to the mighty 24 pounders, of which they only had 9. Somehow, they even managed to secure 6 massive 30 pounder cannons which were relegated to the fortresses surrounding Nafplion. An identifiable uniform was also a bit of an enigma for most to determine as some men wore the traditional fustanella, while the regular forces tended to wear variants of the French army uniform with a matching set of navy blue coats and trousers. It was obvious that some amount of reorganization and uniformization was required of the Army and Navy was needed, however budgetary concerns and politics delayed this process.
The Hellenic Army would be set at a nominal peace time strength of 16,000 men, divided between three active formations; the 1st Army, the Separate Island Division, and the Guard Division.[1] The 1st Army was envisioned to be a unit 10,000 strong, comprised of 2 Active Divisions a Cavalry Regiment, and an Artillery Regiment. The 1st Army was stationed along the border with the Ottoman Empire, with the 1st Division barracked in the Nome of Phocis-Phthiotis and the 2nd Division based in the Nome of Arta. Each Division would be comprised of 2 infantry brigades, comprised of 8 infantry battalions. The Separate Island Division was a unit 4,000 men strong, comprised of four infantry regiments stationed across the Aegean with two on Chios, Samos, Psara, and Icaria, and the other two on Crete. The unit was a purely defensive formation meant to protect the islands in the event of war with the Ottoman Empire.
Recruitment registries were to be established across the country to properly fill the ranks of the military through volunteers and conscripts. Volunteers and conscripts both must be above the age of 18 and no older than 30 for volunteers and 26 for conscripts. Volunteers would have the right to choose their branch of the military and their field in the military. Should the nominal number for each formation not be met through volunteers only, then conscription would be utilized to cover the shortfalls. Conscripts would be selected through a lottery by means of the national census. Both volunteers and conscripts would serve for a period of 3 years.
Soldiers of the 1st Army and Separate Island Brigade would be provided with a navy-blue uniform similar in styling to the French Army uniform, with a wool navy-blue coat, a pair of wool navy-blue trousers with scarlet red trouser stripes, a pair of light grey trousers for the summer, black shoes, and a black Shako cap along with various pins, belts, and buttons. Each infantryman would be assigned a standard issue Modele 1777 corrige, a bayonet, a gunpowder canister, and a pouch for musket balls. Infantry officers were permitted to carry a sword and a sidearm as opposed to a musket, and they could wear a cockade on their shako and golden embroidery as opposed to the white and red embroidery of a non-commissioned officer.
Standard Uniform of a Greek Soldier
The Guard Brigade, or Frourá, was essentially a bloated Regiment comprised of two infantry battalions and two cavalry battalions, giving it a nominal strength of 2,000. The Guard Brigade was to be stationed near the capital of Athens with other secondary barracks in Nafplion, Tripolitsa, and Corinth. It would serve in a ceremonial role responsible for the protection of the King and the Government, and the last line of defense in the event an enemy pierced through the primary defenses on the border. The main formations of the Guard include the 1st Evzones Battalion, the 2nd Evzones Battalion, the 1st Royal Hippeus Battalion and the 2nd Royal Hippeus Battalion. The Evzones regiments were light infantry formations comprised of former klephts and sharpshooters. Finally, the Royal Hippeus regiments were a units of light cavalry in the vein of Russian Uhlan light cavalrymen. Members of the Guard Brigade would be composed of soldiers selected from the regular units who exhibit superior proficiency of arms and fighting capability.
Cavalrymen in the regular Army units would be provided a forest green uniform with a red plastron, a czapka as opposed to a shako, and they were assigned a sabre or lance, a handgun, a gunpowder canister, and a pouch of musket balls. Members of the Royal Hippeus regiment wore the regular cavalry uniform with added embroidery and distinctive patches, their helmets would also be more ornate than the standard cavalrymen czapka. Members of the Evzones regiments were permitted to wear the traditional fustanella of a klepht and were provided with rifles, bayonets, gunpowder canisters, and bullet pouches.
The Evzones
The rates of pay for non-commissioned officers and officers were established: A private would receive a base salary of 40 phoenixes a month. A Corporal shall receive 48 phoenixes a month. A Sergeant shall receive 56 phoenixes a month. An Anthypolochagos (Second Lieutenant) shall receive 68 phoenixes a month. A Ypolochagos (First Lieutenant) shall receive 80 phoenixes a month. A Lochagos (Captain) shall receive 100 phoenixes a month. A Tagmatarchis (Major) shall receive 120 phoenixes a month. An Antisyntagmatarchis (Lt Colonel) shall receive 150 phoenixes a month. A Syntagmatarchis (Colonel) shall receive 180 phoenixes a month. A Taxiarchos (Brigadier General) shall receive 220 phoenixes a month. A Ypostrategos (Major General) shall receive 280 phoenixes a month. An Antistrategos (Lieutenant General) shall receive 350 phoenixes a month. Finally, a Strategos (General) shall receive 450 phoenixes a month. Bonuses could also be earned by soldiers shown to exhibit valor in battle or possess skills desirable to the army such as legal expertise or medical experience. In total, the expenditures for base salaries for the Army amounted to about 9,000,000 Phoenixes or £325,000.
The Navy also received its fair share of attention by Leopold and his Ministers. Leopold and Kapodistrias recognizing the innate numerical disparity between the Ottoman Army and the Greek Army concluded that the Navy must achieve naval superiority in any future conflict with the Ottomans, or the Greeks run the risk of a catastrophe. Any victory on land would be meaningless should the Ottomans win at sea and bring their full might to bear against the Greeks. As a result, the Hellenic Navy was to receive prioritization over the Army in terms of modernization, recruitment, and supply to ensure it was staffed with the best sailors possible, that it was equipped with the best guns possible, and that it was comprised of the best ships possible. Their objective in the event of war would be to secure the islands of the Dodecanese and the Northern Aegean, while disrupting Ottoman naval activity and defending the Greek islands.
While the official number of ships in the Hellenic Navy stood at 94, in terms of proper warships, the actual number was much lower at 31. This included 4 steamships, 2 Razeed Third Rates, 1 Fourth Rate, 2 frigates, 5 corvettes, 4 brigs, 7 sloops, and 6 gunboats. The private ships and merchant vessels were gradually mustered out of the service leaving the main fighting ships to form the majority of the Hellenic Navy. The number of sailors for these ships came in around 4,000 sailors, gunners, officers, craftsmen, and mechanics. Like the Army, they were staffed primarily through volunteers as well, although conscripts did fill a few gaps. Their pay was also on a similar scale to that of the Army’s coming in around 2,800,000 Phoenixes of £100,000 in total. Additionally, another 1.4 million Phoenixes (£50,000) went towards the maintenance and repair of the fleet each year and another 1.4 million Phoenixes went towards supplying the weaponry and munitions of the entire military of Greece.
Each branch of the military would have their own academies for the training of young officers. The Hellenic Military Academy, would be moved from Nafplion to Athens and a separate Hellenic Naval Academy would be established at Piraeus.[2] Each academy would host 40 prospective officers each year. Both the Army and the Navy would employ doctors, physicians, and engineers, the army would also employ veterinarians for the horses and pack mules. Two separate regiment of Gendarmeries would be established to serve as a policing force throughout the country under the authority of the Minister of the Army. Funds were to be established to support the widows and orphans of deceased or incapacitated soldiers and sailors who sacrificed life and limb during the War for Independence.
Next Time: To Secure a Dynasty
[1] This number will grow in the future, but for the time being it will start relatively low.
[2] The Hellenic Military Academy was established by Ioannis Kapodistrias in 1828 in the city of Nafplion. It was later moved to Aegina in 1834, then Piraeus in 1837, and finally Athens in 1854.
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A Greek refers to both the people of Greek culture inside the Kingdom of Greece and the Ottoman Empire/Greek diaspora. I haven't gotten to the language debate yet ITTL, so technically any person speaking or writing in a vaguely Greek dialect as their primary language could be considered Greek as well. When it comes to religion though any Greek Muslims are considered Turks for all intents and purposes regardless of the language they speak, the clothing they wear, or the customs they follow.
Hmmm, realistic, but you will probably need at least another brigade in Crete: it is the largest island, an easy source of recruitment of good warriors (which also makes it hard to police and impose the dictates of the central government), and home to the largest Muslim minority.
I forgot Crete.
Fixed it now, the Seperate Island Brigade is now the Seperate Island Division with 4,000 men, half of which are now on Crete. Still intrigued about the chances of OTL better Greece for territorial expansion, aside from Ionian islands..... I cannot foresee any major changes regarding the Ottoman Empire, considering the fact that till 1878 the Powers minus Russia were commited to manitain the integrity of the Sick Man.The next part will cover Leopold and his TTL wife, but after that I'll do a few parts showing whats been happening in the Ottoman Empire and Western Europe since the war ended, specifically in regards to Egypt and the Netherlands/Belgium. So hopefully that will be a little more interesting to anyone tired with the numbers and minutiae of the Greek Government.
Regarding the integrity of the Ottoman Empire, you are correct in your forecast for the most part but I have some ideas that may make things interesting.
I, for one, have been really interested in your posts about the development of the Greek government in this timeline. I love social history and I also love regional history, so I'm getting a huge kick out of it. That being said, I look forward to seeing how the events in Greece have impacted developments in Western Europe and, in particular, the Ottoman Empire; I have a feeling that the later are going to be facing down the Egyptian Juggernaut sooner than later (Unless, of course, Britain and France are able to step in and rescue the sick old man). I'm also excited to see what impact that a more successful and stable Greek Revolution and government will have on the independence movements of other ethnic groups in the Balkans. I'm sure some Serbs, Bulgarians and others are going to be looking at the Greek Experiment with great interest.
On a side note, has Leopold Hellenized his name by any chance (if you addressed this in a previous update, I apologize for missing it!) and I wonder if he will give his first born son a Greek name, or if the child will be Leopold II of Greece. Since Greece has such a richer history than Belgium did, I could see him trying to tie his dynasty to the past by naming his son Constantine or another classical name.
Do the Greeks have any affinity with their Byzantine/Roman history? It seems like they only really a focus on History of classical Greece.
Well, there’s always *Crimean War butterflies to play with, and the fact that Russia holds Kars is already going to make that interesting.
I’m interested in the development of Egypt TTL too, I’m curious to see if it will fall under Britain or manage to stay free. Egypt could be quite the powerhouse if it holds Syria—could lead to a drastically different Mideast.
TTL there is going to be more of a focus on Byzantine and Roman history, but it’s difficult when all of your foreign support is from Romantic Philhellenes who dislike the idea of the ERE.
I'm a Political Scientist by trade so I sometimes get carried away with intricate little details and whatnot, and Greece just so happens to be one of my top five favorite countries regarding history.
The most immediate and most obvious divergences from OTL in Western Europe will be the Low Countries. As Leopold is King of Greece he can not be King of Belgium which will have a pretty significant effects. There are also some characters ITTL who survived the War for Independence that didn't in OTL and they will also have an impact relatively shortly as well. Regarding the Balkans peoples, Greece will reach out to them in due time.
Leopold's regnal name is King Leo I and I only mention that in the title of part 31, for the most part though I'll just refer to him as Leopold.
The Greeks do have some connections to their Byzantine/Roman heritage mostly in regards to names of offices, people, locations, etc. The reasoning for the strong push to orient Modern Greece towards Ancient Greece lies with the Great Powers and the Philhellenes who really disliked the Byzantine Empire. They considered the Byzantine Empire to be this decadent, oppressive, corrupt entity, while at the same time praising Ancient Greece as this sophisticated and cultured society. As the Powers held great power and infleucne over Greece both IOTL and ITTL there will be a strong Classical Greece flavor although probably less so than OTL given the lack of Otto of Bavaria, who was a major supporter of Ancient Greece over Byzantine Greece.
Another thing that doesn't help is the fact that the Ottomans adopted a lot of the Byzantine Empire's institutions and bureaucracy for themselves when they took over. The Ottomans also hold a lot of the core territory of the Byzantine Empire, namely Constantinople, Thrace, and Asia Minor. Should the Greeks ever secure that then a bit of a Byzantine revival could occur in Greek society.
Uhmmm......Russsia trying the not so long Armenian-Pontic route to the Straits?
They might not even need the Straits so badly if they can conquer their way to the Mediterranean through Turkey. They could seize Cilicia and make Tarsus a major port.
On the other hand, this would be such a major catastrophe for the Ottomans that I can’t see Britain and France letting it come to pass.
An army of 20000 is about twice the paper strength of OTL, the country is richer and more populous in TTL but this still is in the high end. The only practical way I can think of is copying the Prussian system with universal military service (3 years at the time) followed by Landwehr and Landsturm equivalents. This actually have multiple strategic advantages for a country that needs to take on the Ottoman empire sooner or later. At the current TTL population you'd have a yearly intake of about 4,000 hence 12,000 in total plus 8-10,000 volunteers for 20,000 total in peacetime. And as soon as Ethnofylaki (national guard) fills out in about a decade you'll be able to field in wartime about 55,000 men without taking into account population growth.
How plausible is it? Prussia's system is already in place for about two decades, Piemond facing similar issues followed the same path some time in the period and given the large numbers of German and Italian philehellenes of military background both should be known in Athens. Political support will probably be there, a generation later refusal to establish a national guard was one of the reasons for the rebellions that overthrew Otto.
Post that 500 officer cadets is an extremely high intake, by comparison the first class in 1828 had IMS 8 cadets and in the present day the school is taking in about 220 cadets every year from a population of 11 million. Around 30-50 might be more reasonable.
What else? Mountain guard was a gendarmerie unit I can't really see either them and the gendarmerie proper as part of a guards unit. And the mixed support battalions are anachronistic (so are to an extend the mixed divisions) and artillery as an arm will not be part of it for certain, you'd probably have an artillery regiment or more and same for the cavalry.
How plausible is it? Prussia's system is already in place for about two decades, Piemond facing similar issues followed the same path some time in the period and given the large numbers of German and Italian philehellenes of military background both should be known in Athens. Political support will probably be there, a generation later refusal to establish a national guard was one of the reasons for the rebellions that overthrew Otto.
Post that 500 officer cadets is an extremely high intake, by comparison the first class in 1828 had IMS 8 cadets and in the present day the school is taking in about 220 cadets every year from a population of 11 million. Around 30-50 might be more reasonable.
What else? Mountain guard was a gendarmerie unit I can't really see either them and the gendarmerie proper as part of a guards unit. And the mixed support battalions are anachronistic (so are to an extend the mixed divisions) and artillery as an arm will not be part of it for certain, you'd probably have an artillery regiment or more and same for the cavalry.